Skybirds86

[PR19_Kit]

Yes, I know they're long OOP, but the kits keep on cropping up on here, even if only in theory rather than as real builds. The last Skybirds kit that appeared as an assembled model on here was my Martin Baker MB5B Monsoon PR3, and that was way back in Feb 2017!

Anyway, after the rush of interest in the AZ Hornet kits I remembered that I had a Slybirds86 Hornet somewhere, and I looked it (them....) out today. Yes, I've got TWO of them! Both are the single seat Sea Hornet F20, which is actually an FR version as it has camera ports and guns too. Looking over the kits, they're very impressive, with quite thick, though brittle styrene parts, superbly engineered. That's not to mention the myriad small white metal parts and the comprehensive instruction sheets.

I recall that there's meant to be something wrong with the canopy, but at a first glance I can't see what it is, and compared with the one on my Hornet PR5 I can't see any differences, but I'm going to try an AZ canopy on the Skybirds kit to see if they fit OK. I may even decide to built the kit. 

While looking for the Hornets I found I also had TWO Skybirds86 Scimitar kits! These are a whole order more complex than the Hornets, being manufactured in quite a number of small parts for what is a MASSIVE aeroplane. I'm seriously considering Whiffing one of the Scimitars, as I've got a couple of them, and my thinking is to build an RAF FGA3 Scimitar, which would have been most unlikely given the way the RAF didn't even like to THINK about using FAA aircraft for any purpose, even if they were better. Viz the Bucc................. 

What changes would have been made to produce an updated land based Scimitar? A radar nose? Different squared off intakes with boundary layer bleed plates? ECM fin top aerial? Squared off wing and tail? Any and all ideas would be welcomed.

And I just KNOW someone will suggest extending the wings...... 



Yes, the boxes are a) Small and b) pretty UN-strong!

[kitnut617]

I've got one Sea Hornet kit of theirs in the stash, I haven't built it though, the parts breakdown putting me off a bit.
I've got a couple of Pegasus kits (pre-Colin) where the parts breakdown is very similar, was there any connection between the two companies ?

[JayBee]

OK Kit. Here is an idea for the RAF Scimitar, SHORTEN the WINGS for better ride at low levels. 
OK that is a bit of heresy to your ears but what the heck, it's Whif World.

Incidentaly I used to know an Ex FAA Scimitar pilot. Jim Fraser of IPMS Edimburgh.
As far as aircraft go, he hated it!

[PR19_Kit]

I've got one Sea Hornet kit of theirs in the stash, I haven't built it though, the parts breakdown putting me off a bit.
I've got a couple of Pegasus kits (pre-Colin) where the parts breakdown is very similar, was there any connection between the two companies ?

Not as far as I know Robert.

Pegasus kits were the brainchild of Chris Gannon, who was the IPMS Junior Champion in the late 70s or early 80s, and I knew him reasonably well. In fact one their kits, the Lockheed XFV-1 Salmon, is the only kit in the world with a credit to me on the box, as I gave Chris a whole load of articles and pics of the Salmon before he made the kit in the 90s. 

Skybirds86 kits were made by Micheal Eacock, an engineer of some repute, and he pre-dated Pegasus kits by 5 years or so. They both used low pressure moulding techniques, but Mike's stuff was a whole order more precise.

OK Kit. Here is an idea for the RAF Scimitar, SHORTEN the WINGS for better ride at low levels. 
OK that is a bit of heresy to your ears but what the heck, it's Whif World.

Incidentaly I used to know an Ex FAA Scimitar pilot. Jim Fraser of IPMS Edimburgh.
As far as aircraft go, he hated it!

Hmmm, you may have something there Jim, have the RAF Scimitar be a 'Buccaneer' in earlier times? It could be a low level anti-shipping system, which would need high wing loading to give a better ride at low levels. Plus it had flap blowing, just like the Bucc, so it should be able to get off from normal length runways.

AFAIK the Scimitar wasn't all that well liked in the FAA, being a big, heavy lump of an aeroplane which wasn't all that reliable. There's a pic somewhere of one that had gone off the edge of the deck of the Hermes into the sea, and the pilot ejected through the canopy from UNDER WATER! 

[kitbasher]

Radar maybe, Kit.  EDIT: Leave the intakes as-is' (as are?), ditto span. In fact leave all of the rest alone. Add a second (tandem) seat but leave the rest alone.

Backstory - get around the RAF/Navy thing by giving it an RAF lead and the Navy take a navalised version.

Size-wise it'd sit neatly between the Bucc and the Hunter.  However for cred reasons the Swift needs to have been a massive success and the Hunter never happened!

[Leading Observer]

Radar maybe, Kit.  Leave the intakes as-is' (as are?), ditto span.  In fact leave all of the rest alone.

Backstory - get around the RAF/Navy thing by giving it an RAF lead and the Navy take a navalised version.

Size-wise it'd sit neatly between the Bucc and the Hunter.  However for cred reasons the Swift needs to have been a massive success and the Hunter never happened!

In Whiff-World perhaps Hawkers never completely solved the fuel problems the early Hunters faced... and give the Scimitar more powerful engines

[The Rat]

Swing-wing

[sideshowbob9]

EA-6B Prowler equivalent with tandem canopy and a big fairing on the tail plus myriad lumps and bumps?

Trials bird testing out some US armaments like a Standard ARM or perhaps a Walleye or HOBO to replace the limited Bullpup?

[PR19_Kit]

EA-6B Prowler equivalent with tandem canopy and a big fairing on the tail plus myriad lumps and bumps?

Trials bird testing out some US armaments like a Standard ARM or perhaps a Walleye or HOBO to replace the limited Bullpup?

I like the Prowler equivalent idea, yes. 

But a Sea Eagle trials machine would fit with the anti-shipping idea too.

[Rheged]

I like the idea of a trials and testing two seater Scimitar, FAA or RAF.   A single seater RAF Scimitar OOB would be interesting too!

[Knightflyer]

I like the idea of a trials and testing two seater Scimitar, FAA or RAF.   A single seater RAF Scimitar OOB would be interesting too!

I have always had the idea of an RAF Scimitar floating around in the back of my mind, I might have even posed the question on here somewhere in the dim and distant past.

Question always was how it might have fitted into the RAF inventory, I presume in capability it lies (very roughly) between the Hunter and the Canberra, and would've then be replaced by the TSR.2 or Jaguar and Phantom failing that? Weren't some of the early TSR.2 drawings similar to a Super-Scimitar?

[PR19_Kit]

With my usual predilection for PR types I can envisage a Scimitar PR4, with a longer, camera carrying nose, and one from an Airfix Swift FR5 should fit quite nicely I think. No need for longer wings (Did I just write that......?  ) as it would be a tactical type, operating at low level, just like the Swift in fact.

[sideshowbob9]

The trouble I see for a RAF Scimitar is that it is always going to be second-best to the Buccaneer if the RAF have to adopt a Navy type at all.  Perhaps rather than complex up the Scimitar, simplify and make it a weighty CAS platform for RAF Germany: ADENs, rocket pods, BL755s etc. Tactical recce could work too. 

But a Sea Eagle trials machine would fit with the anti-shipping idea too.

I think Sea Eagle is a little late for Scimitar (although an ageing trials machine or UOR-bird is very possible). A dedicated "Iron Hand" Scimitar with Martel-ARMs (freeing up Buccs for strike) could well lead to more investment in Martel and thus possibly the creating of a Radar-Martel (Marratel?) so that you could have a (shorter-range) near-Sea Eagle equivalent well before any Scimitar swansong. Any tuppences gratefully accepted! 

Swing-wing

I'd recommend Su-17 wings. 

[PR19_Kit]

Having just checked the Skybird86 vacform Hornet canopy against the AZ injection version, I REALLY can't see the 'problem' with the Skybirds canopy.

It's maybe .75 mm too short, bit it's very difficult to see, and when it's on the model I'm sure you'd not notice any difference, so I think I'll build one Skybirds kit OOB, and see how it looks.

It may end up as an IDF example, or something else equally exotic, but still OOB. 

[jcf]

EA-6B Prowler equivalent with tandem canopy and a big fairing on the tail plus myriad lumps and bumps?

Nah, it's British, the two seats would have to abreast, like the Hunter trainer.