Dakota gunship

[comrade harps]

Got an Airfix 1/72 Dakota for Xmas and want to build it as a WW2 gunship vs the Japanese. I've got 4 spare .50 Brownings from the Hasegawa B-25 that l can pop in the windows, but wondering what else l can add. Perhaps the Vickers Ks that comes with the kit's Jeep?

But what about the 75mm pack howitzer that the Jeep tows? It could fit in the open doorway, but would the recoil be to much and the rate of fire too slow?

Any thoughts on the topic welcome.

[63cpe]

How about this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_2-pounder_naval_gun

I've put three singles (so 3x Bofors 40L60's) in a lancaster gunship, with a 25 pounder to top it off....project is still to be finished.

David aka 63cpe

[comrade harps]

A 40mm pompom quad in the open cargo door would work. 

[McColm]

You could stick it in the nose,  like the A-10 .

[tigercat]

https://sgtsmess.co.uk/

Lots of metal machine guns should you require them

Plus  various artillery pieces

https://www.grubbytanks.com/product-category/vehicles-by-nationality/20mm-artillery/

[Sport21ing]

I myself think that the cannons are too powerful for the Dakota, but racks for bombs could be possible

[comrade harps]

You could stick it in the nose,  like the A-10 .

Or like a B-25H.

I'm thinking side firing though.

[comrade harps]

I myself think that the cannons are too powerful for the Dakota, but racks for bombs could be possible

I'm concerned about weight and recoil, but just side firing stuff like over SEA but with WW2 gear. 20mm Hispano or 2 poking out the open cargo door or the above mentioned 40mm pompom quad.

[NARSES2]

How about a COW Gun ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COW_37_mm_gun

There were also quite a few low velocity/small calibre canon developed in the early part of WWII specifically for the Home Guard in the UK. Now whilst these were stop gap projects perhaps one or two might have been developed farther when the panic was over ?

[jcf]

A 40mm pompom quad in the open cargo door would work. 

The quad mount weighed just under 9 tons, far beyond the C-47's payload capacity, and it's large.
A complete round of ammunition, case and projectile, weighs about three pounds. With a rate of
fire of about 100 rounds per minute times four guns, one minute of firing would require 1,200
rounds at a weight of 3,600 lbs. Even if you cobble up some sort of "lighweight" mount it's still
going to be very heavy and bulky. The overall length of each separate gun is 8' 6", the DC-3/C-47
fuselage is only a little over 6' in diameter at it widest point and less at the cargo door where the
rear fuselage is already tapering.



Chris's suggestion of a COW gun has possibilities, bearing mind it was manually loaded, it did
however lead to the 40mm S Gun, but both are long, the S having an overall length of 9'9".

The water-cooled Vickers .50 MG was available in fairly large quantities as some versions had already
been listed as obsolete. The LRDG mounted them on the 30-cwt trucks. The Royal Navy Mk. III had
the highest maximum rate of fire at 700 rpm (150 to 200 being a practical rate) and it was designed
to be fired via remote control. Ammunition was disintegrating belts in 200 round drums. The guns were
used in vertical quad-mounts and twin-mounts - horizontal (side-by-side) and vertical (superposed).


Unmounted Mk. III.

http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_5-62_mk3.php
https://vickersmg.blog/the-guns/#5inch

There's a reason that the C-47 was soon suprseded by larger aircraft in the gunship role, it was
very limited in what could be carried.

[comrade harps]

A 40mm pompom quad in the open cargo door would work. 

The quad mount weighed just under 9 tons, far beyond the C-47's payload capacity, and it's large.
A complete round of ammunition, case and projectile, weighs about three pounds. With a rate of
fire of about 100 rounds per minute times four guns, one minute of firing would require 1,200
rounds at a weight of 3,600 lbs. Even if you cobble up some sort of "lighweight" mount it's still
going to be very heavy and bulky. The overall length of each separate gun is 8' 6", the DC-3/C-47
fuselage is only a little over 6' in diameter at it widest point and less at the cargo door where the
rear fuselage is already tapering.



Chris's suggestion of a COW gun has possibilities, bearing mind it was manually loaded, it did
however lead to the 40mm S Gun, but both are long, the S having an overall length of 9'9".

The water-cooled Vickers .50 MG was available in fairly large quantities as some versions had already
been listed as obsolete. The LRDG mounted them on the 30-cwt trucks. The Royal Navy Mk. III had
the highest maximum rate of fire at 700 rpm (150 to 200 being a practical rate) and it was designed
to be fired via remote control. Ammunition was disintegrating belts in 200 round drums. The guns were
used in vertical quad-mounts and twin-mounts - horizontal (side-by-side) and vertical (superposed).


Unmounted Mk. III.

http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_5-62_mk3.php
https://vickersmg.blog/the-guns/#5inch

There's a reason that the C-47 was soon suprseded by larger aircraft in the gunship role, it was
very limited in what could be carried.

🙄

I might stick with my 4 .50 cal Brownings. Maths!

[zenrat]

It strikes me that dive bombing would be the chosen method of CAS if the Allies had air superiority...
...so you need to equip your Dak with dive brakes and a heap of external bomb racks.
Another method of attack might be rolling drums (or modified depth charges) out of the cargo door.  Maybe scratch up a rail system to hold them and guide them to the door.

[Sport21ing]

You could use the Dakota in a mix between the OTL AC-47 and the French using their AAC.1 Toucan - https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2020/04/11/aac-1-toucan-frances-post-wwii-ju-52/
Quote:
"Besides transport and casevac missions, French air force AAC.1s also flew makeshift bombing sorties. Experimentally, some had external bomb racks used with leftover Luftwaffe bombs in French storage. One account had a AAC.1 carrying over 1 ton of bombs, which would be remarkable for the Ju-52 airframe."
"A more expedient choice was "box bombs", empty WWII shipping crates packed full of explosives and shoved out the cargo door. These were not novelty or piecemeal type raids but rather a sustained effort."
+
"AAC.1 Toucans were used as makeshift bombers in Indochina. The Toucan lacked the trapdoor "bomb bay" of prewar and early-WWII Ju-52s, but the AAC.1's wings were strong enough to accept locally-made racks for a dozen each small bombs. There was no method whatsoever of aiming them, other than a best guess from the cockpit."
+
"The French toyed with the idea of making a gunship AAC.1 for use in Algeria. Various armament fits were considered, including pintle-mounted machine guns, air-to-ground rockets, and a 20mm autocannon in the cargo door. None of these plans were ever followed through."

[Dizzyfugu]

I might stick with my 4 .50 cal Brownings. Maths!

As comrade harps mentioned correctly: for a gunship, it is not so much about the number of guns, it's the ammunition supply that makes the aircraft effective - and it weighs a lot. But an AC-47 style aircraft is supposed to keep the opposition on the ground down, and - ideally - shoot it into bits and pieces, that's why the AC-130's bigger guns came into play. The 75mm gun in the B-25 was a dedicated anti-ship weapon, and that's a totally different mission profile. (Just) Four 0.5" machine guns sound sufficient to me, remember the huge ammo load that will be needed, and maybe add a 20mm Hispano or a single pop pom gun, but that's enough for the airframe.

Some time ago I converted an A-1 into an experimental gunship from the Vietnam era with a three-barrel 20mm turret. With some calculations, the ammunition supply ate up almost all the Skyraider's ordnance capability - and even then it would have only been good for a little more than 1 minute of continuous fire at full RPM, IIRC!

[Nick]

Wouldn't it better to redesign a Lancaster with more guns pointing downwards?

Nose: 4x Browning in a ground facing turret operated by the bomb aimer.

Centre: Convert the bomb bay for either 2 more ground turrets or a set of schrage musik style guns. Leave some bomb points for dropping light bombs. Or install a 25-pounder for targeted destruction.

Tail: Modify the tail turret so it points more at the ground - invert the current setup or use a B-17 lower turret.

Eliminate the upper turret for weight saving. Install a flare chute by the cockpit to light up the target.