One Week Build 2021 General Discussion

[Weaver]

The Saladin was ripe for an upgrade. If the Scorpion's tiny turret could be upgunned with a 90mm Cockerill gun, I see no reason why the Saladin's couldn't also.

Why not a complete new turret?
Something a bit more modern to replace the funny-angled, slab-sided thingy.
Would the Commando's 90mm turret be in the right time-frame?

Absolutely - the Commando's been around since the '60s.

The Panhard AML-90 turret would be a logical choice, or even the big GIAT TS-90 turret, as fitted to the ERC-90 Sagaie armoured car and about a dozen other things, at least experimentally. Any two-man turret from an IFV should also fit, so Marder, Warrior, Bradley, LAV-25 etc...

A Saladin armed with a 30mm RARDEN gun in the original turret was apparently offered on the export market but found no takers. That would be dead easy to do with the spare RARDEN from an Airfix Scorpion, of course.

The limiting factor modelling-wise is scale. The commonly available Airfix/JB Saladin is 1/76th scale, whereas most of the tasty donor kits are 1/72nd. Somebody (Ace?) does a 1/72nd Saladin.

Other things you could do with a Saladin:

Re-gun out of neccessity, rather than improvement. Maybe some 3rd world country got a batch of Saladins before going commie and getting cut off from supplies of 76mm, so they re-arm then with the 73mm from the BMP-1. Or maybe they just take the turret off completely and stick a pintle-mount 82mm RR on it. The Russian 73mm low-pressure gun is dead easy modelling-wise since it's just a plain tube (it just fires SPG-9 recoilless gun ammo from a closed breach.)

Down-gun for other roles. Something I've been thinking about is a 4x4 command and control variant, with the turret and the middle wheels replaced by a fixed structure with side doors and a pintle-mounted MG on top. It would have more volume than a Ferret C&C version but still have a lower profile than a Saracen.

Siamese two kits together to make an 8x8 version.

Tracked version. Not as mad as it sounds: the French AMX-10 family were prototyped in both tracked and 6x6 versions. They ended up choosing tracks for the IFV (AMX-10P) and wheels for the heavy armoured car (AMX-10RC) but opposite versions (wheeled APC and tracked light tank) existed as prototypes.

[Rick Lowe]

The 4X4 sounds like a good scheme - and would work with other vehicles, too.

I saw mention once that the Saladin was originally built in WW2, but they delayed introduction so it could have the 76mm - maybe a back-dated version with the 2-pdr or a 37mm?
There again, you're wanting to *upgrade* it, not back-date it...

So a Commando's large turret, or an early LAV/Cougar job - or the AATP-7 unit, with co-ax .50 and Mk.19?

[Weaver]

The AATP-7 turret would be an easy fit, and there's a precedent for it too. Along with the Fox armoured car, there was another vehicle developed called the Vixen, which had a slightly raised roof over the fighting compartment, a four-man crew and the Peak Engineering one-man 7.62mm turret (same as some FV432s). It intended for command and control in recce units, but it was never ordered though, probably because the British Army had so many Ferrets to spare. A Saladin with a one-man MG turret would be an equivalent. You could even combine it with the 4x4 idea. An export customer might want it because they're not as flush with alternatives as the British.

The AATP-7's 12.7mm+40mm turret is called the 'Cadillac-Gage 1-Metre Turret', by the way. It's appeared on quite a few other vehicles, with varying weapon fits (12.7mm+7.62mm MGs is hte most common), including the V-150, so it's a good choice for an export option.

If you wanted to put the Peak Engineering turret on this or anything else, there's a wargames company that does a white metal one in 1/76th. I've got a couple and they're nice. I'll try to rememeber the name...

[Rick Lowe]

I didn't know the turret was a CG item, thanks for the info. 
So I could use one from another kit (eg Tamiya) in modified form on the HobbyBoss Commando... good to have options, as the HB 20mm and 90mm kits are long gone.

(The one I do have is earmarked to go onto a cut down Greyhound as a USCM scout vehicle...)

WRT the wargaming turret, S&S has you covered (though in 20mm/1:72):

https://sandsmodels.com/product/fv432-peak-turret/

[Weaver]

I didn't know the turret was a CG item, thanks for the info. 
So I could use one from another kit (eg Tamiya) in modified form on the HobbyBoss Commando... good to have options, as the HB 20mm and 90mm kits are long gone.

(The one I do have is earmarked to go onto a cut down Greyhound as a USCM scout vehicle...)

WRT the wargaming turret, S&S has you covered (though in 20mm/1:72):

https://sandsmodels.com/product/fv432-peak-turret/

Ah yes, that's who I was thinking of - cheers.

Not 100% certain, but I think that S&S FV432 Peak-conversion plate would drop right into the turret ring of a 1/72nd Saladin. it's just a shade too big for the 1/76th one (all I've got) and the Airfix/JB one has a solid hull top with a peg hole rather than a turret ring anyway.

[Weaver]

Now these have possibilities:

MILAN compact turret: https://sandsmodels.com/product/milan-compact-turret/



3 x generic RWS: https://sandsmodels.com/product/modern-remote-weapon-stations/



You might imagine a family of upgraded FV600 series vehicles adopted instead of the CVR(T)s:

6x6 Saladin with 90mm gun
4x4 Saladin command car with fixed superstructure, side doors and an RWS
Saracen APC with an RWS.
Saracen anti-tank with the MILAN MCT (minus the box superstructure) plus a 7.62mm RWS.

You could put the MILANs on a Saladin, but the problem with missiles is always reloads: they're big things, so an APC is usually more suitable.

[Old Wombat]

All this talk of "1/76" & "1/72" in an armour discussion is really doing my head in!

1/35 is the One True Armour Scale!

[kitbasher]

All this talk of "1/76" & "1/72" in an armour discussion is really doing my head in!

1/35 is the One True Armour Scale!

1/35?  Armour??  What's them, then???

[NARSES2]

Well I had a quick rummage in the stash yesterday and have selected the kit for this years One Week Build. Not many parts as it's Planet's B&V P.193.01. Planet are usually really good fit and I've built them before in the 1 Week Build, so "touching wood" 

[PR19_Kit]

NO idea what I'll do for a One Week Build, or even IF I'll do one.

Time will tell, as I rest on my laurels from last year's event. 

[kitbasher]

I may de-whif last year's nul-pointer Belgian MS.406 into a RW Finnish example.  That or de-whif an Italian Bf109E-4 from a few years back into a RW Swiss E-3.

[Dizzyfugu]

 


1:72 Spähpanzer Puma (Neu); vehicle "407", Panzer Aufklärungs Battallion 5, Deutsche Bundeswehr; Sontra (Hesse), 1959 (Whif/Hasegawa kit conversion) by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr

[zenrat]

All this talk of "1/76" & "1/72" in an armour discussion is really doing my head in!

1/35 is the One True Armour Scale!

Not if you want to build one in a week...

[NARSES2]

That or de-whif an Italian Bf109E-4 from a few years back into a RW Swiss E-3.

Don't forget the Swiss examples had a different style of control column 

[Old Wombat]

All this talk of "1/76" & "1/72" in an armour discussion is really doing my head in!

1/35 is the One True Armour Scale!

Not if you want to build one in a week...

Actually, not that difficult in 1/35, if you don't change too much more than the scheme (& don't have a gazillion individual track links to piece together).