Recce and Surveillance GB - Rules

[kitbasher]

How about civilian reconnaissance, such as survey and exploration vehicles?

Similar question: what about space probes and satellites?

On the one hand, they're definitely 'gathering data' (there's literally a probe around Mars called the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter) but on the other hand, there's no 'enemy' (as far as we know...) to be spying on.

PM to follow, Mr Weaver

Thank you, although I think the answer would be interesting to more people than just me.

PM just sent.

[kitbasher]

Afternoon, all.
Encouraging to see so much interest and preparation growing ahead of this GB.  Following the questions regarding 'civilian reconnaissance' (including satellites, survey and exploration vehicles), the Mods feel it's only right to provide some additional clarity regarding the GB's scope.

Rule 2 points towards Wikipedia content at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconnaissance that is intended to help explain what's eligible (we'd scoured the web for definitions, the Wikipedia piece supports what we found).  By way of additional clarification:

• We see 'civilian reconnaissance' as meaning mapping, survey or exploration, not reconnaissance, and therefore out of scope.
• As for space probes and satellites, those used for mapping, survey or exploration on or around a planet are not in scope.
• If we're talking intelligence agencies and/or the military using any platform (including satellites) for intelligence gathering, then these would be in scope.
• Zenrat has suggested that Thunderbird 5 would be in scope.  The Mods are of the view that, as TB5 is used for monitoring rather than actively seeking something out, it is out of scope.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbirds_machines#Thunderbird_5, https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Thunderbird_5 and other similar sites describe TB5's role.

Hope this is helpful.  Again if there is any doubt then please do PM us with your query.

[loupgarou]

As the title says "and surveillance" , something in this kind of things would be acceptable, I suppose.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/154282319899?hash=item23ebf1601b:g:zVMAAOSwLURgUx24

Surveillance along Hadrian's wall (and other walls...) was a military job.

[TomZ]

As the title says "and surveillance" , something in this kind of things would be acceptable, I suppose.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/154282319899?hash=item23ebf1601b:g:zVMAAOSwLURgUx24

Surveillance along Hadrian's wall (and other walls...) was a military job.

Dave and I discussed this and can confirm that yes, this is acceptable within the rules.

TomZ

[zenrat]

So what, in your view is the difference between surveillance and monitoring?

And what about this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rallying#Pacenotes_and_reconnaissance

Are you saying only military subjects are acceptable?

[TomZ]

Guys,

We can hold endless discussions about the exact meaning of words. To try to avoid that discussion we included a wiki article on what we (the moderators) would perceive as being reconnaissance in the context of this group build. If you have a specific example you want to build, please send us private message and we will come back to you.
Otherwise we will be discussing terminology long after the end of the group build itself. We are modellers. Let's talk about models and not argue semantics.

TomZ

[Pellson]

Guys,

We can hold endless discussions about the exact meaning of words. To try to avoid that discussion we included a wiki article on what we (the moderators) would perceive as being reconnaissance in the context of this group build. If you have a specific example you want to build, please send us private message and we will come back to you.
Otherwise we will be discussing terminology long after the end of the group build itself. We are modellers. Let's talk about models and not argue semantics.

TomZ

Hear, hear! 

[kerick]

Build a model of your cell phone. Those things are spying on us all the time. And I'm not a conspiracy nut.

[Weaver]

Build a model of your cell phone. Those things are spying on us all the time. And I'm not a conspiracy nut.

White Transit van with a 'company' logo that features a glossy black square and no phone number, parked innocently on a street. You view the diorama in forced perspective through a window and a pair of barely opened curtains...

[rickshaw]

Build a model of your cell phone. Those things are spying on us all the time. And I'm not a conspiracy nut.

White Transit van with a 'company' logo that features a glossy black square and no phone number, parked innocently on a street. You view the diorama in forced perspective through a window and a pair of barely opened curtains...

"Flowers By Irene"?

[Weaver]

Another question if I may, the answer to which will be of general interest, hence why I'm asking it here rather than by PM:

What about AEW/AWACS aircraft?

On the one hand, they are definitely seeking information about 'what's happening over there' and are 'surveilling' a volume of airspace for military purposes.

On the other hand, it could be argued that their primary purpose is to provide information for the immediate control of friendly aircraft (AEW) or even provide the control themselves (AWACS), rather than feeding that info back home for intelligence analysis.

Presumably whatever decision is made with respect to AEW/AWACS will also apply to airborne ground surveillance radar systems like JSTARS too?

[TomZ]

Good question. We will confer and come back to you

TomZ

[loupgarou]

Good question. We will confer and come back to you

TomZ

[kitbasher]

Good question. We will confer and come back to you

TomZ

yep, just about right 

[TomZ]

Good question. We will confer and come back to you

TomZ

The picture is way to flattering to me......

Tom