Recce and Surveillance GB - Rules

[Rheged]

Good question. We will confer and come back to you

TomZ

Even Bill Shakespeare had modelling difficulties, as this deleted first draft of the Macbeth witches speech shows.

Nose of Goshawk, wing of Spit;
Canopy that just won't fit;
Tornado tail and four blade prop;
Glue that on the sprue did drop;
Crumpled decals, dried up paint;
Instructions printed too d*** faint;
PSR and endless trouble;
Polystyrene melt and bubble!!

Coming soon from the same author!   The Tempest ,  a tale of wild imagination, the flight of Aerial  and artistic creation. 

Bill Shakespeare might well have been an early Whiffer as is shown by his comment in Tempest act 4 scene 1  "  .......We are such stuff as dreams are made on....."   which I take to be a statement of the basis of  his whiffery.

[PR19_Kit]

Nose of Goshawk, wing of Spit;
Canopy that just won't fit;
Tornado tail and four blade prop;
Glue that on the sprue did drop;
Crumpled decals, dried up paint;
Instructions printed too d*** faint;
PSR and endless trouble;
Polystyrene melt and bubble!!

That, Mr. Rheged, is EXCEPTIONAL! I'm wholly impressed. 

[Pellson]

Good question. We will confer and come back to you

TomZ

Even Bill Shakespeare had modelling difficulties, as this deleted first draft of the Macbeth witches speech shows.

Nose of Goshawk, wing of Spit;
Canopy that just won't fit;
Tornado tail and four blade prop;
Glue that on the sprue did drop;
Crumpled decals, dried up paint;
Instructions printed too d*** faint;
PSR and endless trouble;
Polystyrene melt and bubble!!

Coming soon from the same author!   The Tempest ,  a tale of wild imagination, the flight of Aerial  and artistic creation. 

Bill Shakespeare might well have been an early Whiffer as is shown by his comment in Tempest act 4 scene 1  "  .......We are such stuff as dreams are made on....."   which I take to be a statement of the basis of  his whiffery.

[Old Wombat]

Nose of Goshawk, wing of Spit;
Canopy that just won't fit;
Tornado tail and four blade prop;
Glue that on the sprue did drop;
Crumpled decals, dried up paint;
Instructions printed too d*** faint;
PSR and endless trouble;
Polystyrene melt and bubble!!

That, Mr. Rheged, is EXCEPTIONAL! I'm wholly impressed. 

Agreed! 

[tigercat]

I understand that Charles Dickens was also a modeller as can be seen in his " Tale of Two Tiffies"  where he reviews what many Whiffing Historians think is a lost to History Mach 2 Typhoon (definitely a french manufacturer anyway ) and a what is believed to be a Frog kit

It was the best of kits , it was the worst of kits

[Rheged]

I understand that Charles Dickens was also a modeller as can be seen in his " Tale of Two Tiffies"  where he reviews what many Whiffing Historians think is a lost to History Mach 2 Typhoon (definitely a french manufacturer anyway ) and a what is believed to be a Frog kit

It was the best of kits , it was the worst of kits

Unfortunately, literary history has not recorded the name of the kit about which he had "Great Expectations".  Nor does it record the item Shakespeare acquired from "Kit" Marlowe, which he described as "A Comedy of Errors"  but with much PSR he managed to complete  properly, and recorded that "All's well that Ends Well"  We are aware, however, that he did attempt to model a Mitchell/Supermarine aircraft; this was another tricky exercise, described in "The Taming of the Shrew"




Sorry, Chris, but I couldn't resist this!

[tigercat]

I understand Shakespeare did upgrade a Learjet though ....

[loupgarou]

Nose of Goshawk, wing of Spit;
Canopy that just won't fit;
Tornado tail and four blade prop;
Glue that on the sprue did drop;
Crumpled decals, dried up paint;
Instructions printed too d*** faint;
PSR and endless trouble;
Polystyrene melt and bubble!!

That, Mr. Rheged, is EXCEPTIONAL! I'm wholly impressed. 

Agreed! 

Indeed! 

[kitbasher]

Good question. We will confer and come back to you

TomZ

Even Bill Shakespeare had modelling difficulties, as this deleted first draft of the Macbeth witches speech shows.

Nose of Goshawk, wing of Spit;
Canopy that just won't fit;
Tornado tail and four blade prop;
Glue that on the sprue did drop;
Crumpled decals, dried up paint;
Instructions printed too d*** faint;
PSR and endless trouble;
Polystyrene melt and bubble!!

Coming soon from the same author!   The Tempest ,  a tale of wild imagination, the flight of Aerial  and artistic creation. 

Bill Shakespeare might well have been an early Whiffer as is shown by his comment in Tempest act 4 scene 1  "  .......We are such stuff as dreams are made on....."   which I take to be a statement of the basis of  his whiffery.

Hmm, there are those who claim that Christopher Marlowe was the leading Elizabethan whiffer and actual author of those words 

Anyway, the Mods have gathered, peered into the cauldron and dealt the tarot cards, and in answer to Mr Weaver's query.....

AWACS and AEW extend surface-based air defence radar capabilities and are basically two terms covering the same issue.  AEW (and I assume Harold is putting the term in the British context) does include a control element - as an air cadet my last trip was 8+ hours in a Shackleton AEW2 and saw the scopies (air defence controllers) in action.  20 years ago I got a trip in an E-3 (admittedly USAF) and yep, scopies there too.  Scopies are basically ATCOs who couldn't keep traffic apart (and actually were pretty rubbish at vectoring jets on to targets - ATCOs could do it much better and with far less RT chat).  I digress.

Given their role yes AWACS/AEW are out of - no pun intended - scope; and yes, same applies to systems like JSTARS/ASTOR.

[PR19_Kit]

Scopies are basically ATCOs who couldn't keep traffic apart (and actually were pretty rubbish at vectoring jets on to targets - ATCOs could do it much better and with far less RT chat).  I digress.

My youngest daughter (She's the RAF's Best Air Traffic.........Oh, you know that? OK) says that ATCOs and Scopies are diametrically opposite to each other, in that ATCOS spend their time keeping aeroplanes apart, whereas Scopies spend their time trying to bring them together!

So what are the RAF doing about it? They're merging the two trades into one! 

And who's in charge of the training programme to do this? Yes, the self-same daughter who spoke those very true words!!!!

[kitbasher]

Scopies are basically ATCOs who couldn't keep traffic apart (and actually were pretty rubbish at vectoring jets on to targets - ATCOs could do it much better and with far less RT chat).  I digress.

My youngest daughter (She's the RAF's Best Air Traffic.........Oh, you know that? OK) says that ATCOs and Scopies are diametrically opposite to each other, in that ATCOS spend their time keeping aeroplanes apart, whereas Scopies spend their time trying to bring them together!

So what are the RAF doing about it? They're merging the two trades into one! 

And who's in charge of the training programme to do this? Yes, the self-same daughter who spoke those very true words!!!!

Employing scopies is a long-standing government ploy to keep the unemployment and prison population stats down.

In all seriousness, when I was on exchange with the BAF I heard 1 Wg pilots repeatedly say that Belga Radar ATCOs were better at intercepts than CRC Glons scopies.  Far less chat from military ATCOs and could get a vector onto target right pretty much first time.  Military ATCOs get plenty of practice putting formations (including tankers and chicks) together.

[Weaver]

Given their role yes AWACS/AEW are out of - no pun intended - scope; and yes, same applies to systems like JSTARS/ASTOR.

Okay, thanks.

I've been struggling to come up with a project for this GB and that was one way out of it. However, the time's not been wasted, because thinking about the issue has given me another idea that definitely IS in scope.

AWACS and AEW extend surface-based air defence radar capabilities and are basically two terms covering the same issue.  AEW (and I assume Harold is putting the term in the British context) does include a control element - as an air cadet my last trip was 8+ hours in a Shackleton AEW2 and saw the scopies (air defence controllers) in action.  20 years ago I got a trip in an E-3 (admittedly USAF) and yep, scopies there too.  Scopies are basically ATCOs who couldn't keep traffic apart (and actually were pretty rubbish at vectoring jets on to targets - ATCOs could do it much better and with far less RT chat).  I digress.

I'd say that's more a case of the RAF using 'AEW' incorrectly, probably because it was in the official RAF dictionary and 'AWACS' wasn't, and changing it would mean having a 10-year, multi-million pound study...

[AeroplaneDriver]

Good question. We will confer and come back to you

TomZ

Even Bill Shakespeare had modelling difficulties, as this deleted first draft of the Macbeth witches speech shows.

Nose of Goshawk, wing of Spit;
Canopy that just won't fit;
Tornado tail and four blade prop;
Glue that on the sprue did drop;
Crumpled decals, dried up paint;
Instructions printed too d*** faint;
PSR and endless trouble;
Polystyrene melt and bubble!!

Coming soon from the same author!   The Tempest ,  a tale of wild imagination, the flight of Aerial  and artistic creation. 

Bill Shakespeare might well have been an early Whiffer as is shown by his comment in Tempest act 4 scene 1  "  .......We are such stuff as dreams are made on....."   which I take to be a statement of the basis of  his whiffery.

Hmm, there are those who claim that Christopher Marlowe was the leading Elizabethan whiffer and actual author of those words 

Anyway, the Mods have gathered, peered into the cauldron and dealt the tarot cards, and in answer to Mr Weaver's query.....

AWACS and AEW extend surface-based air defence radar capabilities and are basically two terms covering the same issue.  AEW (and I assume Harold is putting the term in the British context) does include a control element - as an air cadet my last trip was 8+ hours in a Shackleton AEW2 and saw the scopies (air defence controllers) in action.  20 years ago I got a trip in an E-3 (admittedly USAF) and yep, scopies there too.  Scopies are basically ATCOs who couldn't keep traffic apart (and actually were pretty rubbish at vectoring jets on to targets - ATCOs could do it much better and with far less RT chat).  I digress.

Given their role yes AWACS/AEW are out of - no pun intended - scope; and yes, same applies to systems like JSTARS/ASTOR.

Oh come on???  Are you really saying a platform with the name "Joint SURVEILLANCE Target Attack Radar System" is beyond the scope of a SURVEILLANCE GB?? 

The fact sheet published by the JSTARS team on the Robins AFB website calls it a "surveillance and reconnaissance" platform.

[PR19_Kit]

 
The fact sheet published by the JSTARS team on the Robins AFB website calls it a "surveillance and reconnaissance" platform.

Mandy Rice-Davies.   

[AeroplaneDriver]

 
The fact sheet published by the JSTARS team on the Robins AFB website calls it a "surveillance and reconnaissance" platform.

Mandy Rice-Davies.   

Have to admit you lost me with that one....