The Gunships GB - Rules

[kitnut617]

I'm tempted, very tempted --- wonder if my mind is in the right place   

[lenny100]

got a couple or 3 ideas for upguned chieftain tanks

[Mossie]

I'd add "has a large gun/guns as the primary armament".  That way you can add in rockets/bombs etc. Also, the current rules all suggest modification, so this allows for the guns as part of the original design.

[AeroplaneDriver]

I'd add "has a large gun/guns as the primary armament".  That way you can add in rockets/bombs etc. Also, the current rules all suggest modification, so this allows for the guns as part of the original design.

Can you elaborate with an example?

[Mossie]

I'd add "has a large gun/guns as the primary armament".  That way you can add in rockets/bombs etc. Also, the current rules all suggest modification, so this allows for the guns as part of the original design.

Can you elaborate with an example?

A-10. Hind.

[Mossie]

But also any fictional design that you might want to start with huge or powerful weapons. Sci fi examples include the USS Defiant, B-Wing, even the Death Star.

[Steel Penguin]

or maybe use a old babalon5 model with a giant centre mounted weapon ?

[Mossie]

Second thoughts, Hind isn't the best example as the Hind D was a modification to the Hind A but I'd throw the Apache instead.

[Rheged]

Second thoughts, Hind isn't the best example as the Hind D was a modification to the Hind A but I'd throw the Apache instead.

My first thought on reading this was a HAWKER Hind with either a 20mm cannon for the second man, or a 40 mm weapon beneath the fuselage firing (synchronised) forwards............would that count?

[Doug K]

But also any fictional design that you might want to start with huge or powerful weapons. Sci fi examples include the USS Defiant, B-Wing, even the Death Star.

Up-gunning the Death Star? Scary thought 😉

[AeroplaneDriver]

I'd add "has a large gun/guns as the primary armament".  That way you can add in rockets/bombs etc. Also, the current rules all suggest modification, so this allows for the guns as part of the original design.

Can you elaborate with an example?

A-10. Hind.

So if I understand correctly you are asking about using an existing "Gunship" presumably as a "paint & decal" whif with no modifications?  If so then I'd lean strongly towards yes since they are most definitely gunships.  Let's see if Crudebuteffective chimes in to opine.

[crudebuteffective]

I'd add "has a large gun/guns as the primary armament".  That way you can add in rockets/bombs etc. Also, the current rules all suggest modification, so this allows for the guns as part of the original design.

Can you elaborate with an example?

A-10. Hind.

So if I understand correctly you are asking about using an existing "Gunship" presumably as a "paint & decal" whif with no modifications?  If so then I'd lean strongly towards yes since they are most definitely gunships.  Let's see if Crudebuteffective chimes in to opine.

yep existing "gunship" with  other mods sounds ok as long as you dont remove the gun to my mind

[Weaver]

Rule 2-  WHAT IS A GUNSHIP?
Any aircraft, land vehicle or ship that has been
1 significantly up gunned (numerically or size wise)
2 had its main armament changed to all gun from other armament
3 had guns added to previously unarmed

Having tried and failed to run a Gunships GB on BTS years ago, I've seen some of the pitfalls here. The essential problem is that everybody knows what they think they mean by 'gunship', but when you try to pin it down to specifics, the concept evaporates. The truth is that in popular usage, there are two kinds of helicopter 'gunship' (slim fuselage with weapon wings & transport with bolt-on armament), two kinds of fixed-wing gunship (transport with side-firing guns & bomber with extra nose guns) and various kinds of 'gun-truck', and they're all different from one another while, ironically, the term isn't used for any kind of naval vessel at all.

So, random thoughts/observations:

Rule 3 allows some pretty weedy 'gunships': a dodgem car with a pintle-mounted air-pistol would count under this definition.

Rule 1 begs the question of what qualifies as 'significant'. For example, I've often thought of upgunning a Saladin with a GIAT F2 (AML-90) gun. Is 76mm to 90mm 'significant' enough or not? How about 75mm medium velocity to 76mm high velocity (Sherman to Firefly)? How about 'upgunning' a APC/Scout Car from 1x 7.62mm MG to 1 x 12.7mm, or 2 x 7.62mm?

An Apache has been mentioned as an example of a gunship. Surely the Apache's main armament is its Hellfire missiles, followed by its rockets? The gun is really only a tertiary armament, intended for targets that are too weak or cheap to justify a rocket. The same can be said of almost all purpose designed helicopter 'gunships', indeed some (initial A-129 and some planned Tiger versions) didn't have guns at all.

Do the guns have to be a permanent fixture or can they be in pods? If the latter, then an F-4E with five SUU-23 pods becomes a 'gunship' even though it's essentially unmodified.

[zenrat]

75mm to 76mm is not a significant increase.  Nor is 75mm to 90mm.
75mm to 16inch on the other hand...

I imagine a tank based gunship would be something intended to turn infantry into chopped liver.  So a 75mm gun upgraded to four, six or eight 50 cals for example.

I was going to sit this one out but a couple of ideas have got me interested.  One is a Katyusha based on something other than the usual Gaz, Kraz, Zil etc and the other is car based.

[Mossie]

I'd add "has a large gun/guns as the primary armament".  That way you can add in rockets/bombs etc. Also, the current rules all suggest modification, so this allows for the guns as part of the original design.

Can you elaborate with an example?

A-10. Hind.

So if I understand correctly you are asking about using an existing "Gunship" presumably as a "paint & decal" whif with no modifications?  If so then I'd lean strongly towards yes since they are most definitely gunships.  Let's see if Crudebuteffective chimes in to opine.

yep existing "gunship" with  other mods sounds ok as long as you dont remove the gun to my mind

Not quite what I meant, but it seems to work.  By 'design' I meant the original vehicle rather than a kit.  The draft rules all appear towards modifications of a vehicle.  What I meant was a vehicle that was designed as a 'gunship' but may be a fictional kitbash.