Under the Black Flag GB - The Rules

[NARSES2]

This will be the place for the rules gents which I will post up for discussion much nearer the date.

It will run from 1/3/2022 through to 31/5/22. Moderators will be Scooter and joncarrafarrelly.

[NARSES2]

Right here's the first draft of the rules for discussion/finalisation

Under the Black Flag GB, Pirates, Buccaneers and Smugglers

1.   The Under the Black Flag GB, Pirates, Buccaneers and Smugglers, runs from 00:01 Tuesday 1 March 2022 until 23:59 Tuesday 31 May 2022 (all times local).  An extension may or may not be considered/set up according to demand and or pecuniary overtures.

2.   Any subject that meets the criteria of piracy (including privateers, buccaneers and smuggling) set in any time period is eligible.  This can also include Intellectual Property piracy - unlicensed production of videos, music etc. which is different from simple theft, if you can work out how to include it. This might be an avenue for our "story tellers" to explore ? Plus of course one shouldn't forget Pirate Radio. If still in doubt about your plans contact the Mods.

3. You may build, draw or write as many entries as you like (good luck!).  The posting of in-progress pictures is encouraged as always.  Back stories - however long or short - supporting physical models and profiles are always welcome.

4. "Preparation" work is allowed prior to the start of the GB - this includes the cutting out and cleaning up of parts, even designing and printing your own decals, but anything involving paint or glue is not allowed.

5. Eligibility of part-started models will be considered by the moderators. You should pm to explain what you have done (pictures re a great help if you can include them) and they will decide, their decision being final.

6. No rule 6 - is there ever a rule 6 ? It's one rule or another so from now on it's 6

7. Moderators are Joncarrfarrelly, Nighthunter and Scooter. Thank you gents

8. All finished builds must be posted in the Finished Builds thread before the deadline in order to be included in the poll. The completed builds thread will then be locked at the end of the GB and shortly afterwards the poll will be set up.  Number of votes each depends on the number of entries.  Keep your eyes out for updates!

9. As decided previously by the Membership the first three placed entries in the Group Build will automatically be nominated for a Whiffy in a new, specific Group Build Class.

Small amendment made to Rule 8 in order to clarify that all finished builds need to be posted in the Finished Builds thread.

[zenrat]

OK.  Rule 2 states;

This can also include Intellectual Property piracy - unlicensed production of videos, music etc. which is different from simple theft, if you can work out how to include it.

Would this include unlicensed production of aircraft, cars, motorbikes etc?  An American motor manufacturer pirating the plans of the latest Japanese sports car and putting it into production with their own power plant and badges on it for example.

[Dizzyfugu]

I already mentioned this a while ago, but since we now have a place to ask (and official moderators, thanks a lot for taking the challenge  ) if bounty hunting/hunters are thematically eligible for this GB?

Wikipedia describes the job as "a private agent working for bail bonds who captures fugitives or criminals for a commission or bounty. The occupation, officially known as bail enforcement agent, or fugitive recovery agent, has traditionally operated outside the legal constraints that govern police officers and other agents of the state."

Would the topic qualify, as it would give me some motivation to tackle a long-postponed project for the GB?

Thanks a lot in advance!

[Weaver]

Couple of random points:

1. Given the recent confusion, would it not be an idea to incorporate in ALL GB rules from now on a rule to the effect that builds must be posted in the Finished Builds thread before the deadline in order to be included in the poll?

2. With respect to Dizzy's question, I would submit that bounty hunters should not be eligible for this GB since, although they operate outside the same legal constraints as the police, they still operate under a legal framework/licencing system, and are therefore not 'outlaws' like real pirates. You can't be jailed simply for being a bounty hunter. You could equally well say that the darker corners of the intelligence agencies operate outside the same legal constraints as the police too, but I think most people would think it a stretch to call them 'pirates', except perhaps as a hyperbolic insult.

[NARSES2]

Couple of random points:

1. Given the recent confusion, would it not be an idea to incorporate in ALL GB rules from now on a rule to the effect that builds must be posted in the Finished Builds thread before the deadline in order to be included in the poll?

Rule 8 does mention the Finished Builds thread but I see your point Harold.

I've just been in and changed it. Thanks for hi-lighting the issue 

[loupgarou]

Couple of random points:

1. Given the recent confusion, would it not be an idea to incorporate in ALL GB rules from now on a rule to the effect that builds must be posted in the Finished Builds thread before the deadline in order to be included in the poll?

2. With respect to Dizzy's question, I would submit that bounty hunters should not be eligible for this GB since, although they operate outside the same legal constraints as the police, they still operate under a legal framework/licencing system, and are therefore not 'outlaws' like real pirates. You can't be jailed simply for being a bounty hunter. You could equally well say that the darker corners of the intelligence agencies operate outside the same legal constraints as the police too, but I think most people would think it a stretch to call the 'pirates', except perhaps as a hyperbolic insult.

From point 2: so I suppose a corsair or privateer would not be eligible for this GB, as he/she has a letter of marque from some nation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer

[scooter]

Couple of random points:

1. Given the recent confusion, would it not be an idea to incorporate in ALL GB rules from now on a rule to the effect that builds must be posted in the Finished Builds thread before the deadline in order to be included in the poll?

2. With respect to Dizzy's question, I would submit that bounty hunters should not be eligible for this GB since, although they operate outside the same legal constraints as the police, they still operate under a legal framework/licencing system, and are therefore not 'outlaws' like real pirates. You can't be jailed simply for being a bounty hunter. You could equally well say that the darker corners of the intelligence agencies operate outside the same legal constraints as the police too, but I think most people would think it a stretch to call the 'pirates', except perhaps as a hyperbolic insult.

From point 2: so I suppose a corsair or privateer would not be eligible for this GB, as he/she has a letter of marque from some nation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer

Privateers are allowed, under the consideration of "one nation's privateer is another's pirate"

As with the recent Recce GB, as long as it's explained or clarified within the backstory, (re: M2 Bradley IFV vs M3 Bradley scout).

[Mossie]

I already mentioned this a while ago, but since we now have a place to ask (and official moderators, thanks a lot for taking the challenge  ) if bounty hunting/hunters are thematically eligible for this GB?

Wikipedia describes the job as "a private agent working for bail bonds who captures fugitives or criminals for a commission or bounty. The occupation, officially known as bail enforcement agent, or fugitive recovery agent, has traditionally operated outside the legal constraints that govern police officers and other agents of the state."

Would the topic qualify, as it would give me some motivation to tackle a long-postponed project for the GB?

Thanks a lot in advance!

2. With respect to Dizzy's question, I would submit that bounty hunters should not be eligible for this GB since, although they operate outside the same legal constraints as the police, they still operate under a legal framework/licencing system, and are therefore not 'outlaws' like real pirates. You can't be jailed simply for being a bounty hunter. You could equally well say that the darker corners of the intelligence agencies operate outside the same legal constraints as the police too, but I think most people would think it a stretch to call the 'pirates', except perhaps as a hyperbolic insult.

It could happen outside the law.  Kidnapping individuals for a criminal syndicate, or for a ransom might be considered a pirate activity. Or maybe a government acting illegally.

[Old Wombat]

I already mentioned this a while ago, but since we now have a place to ask (and official moderators, thanks a lot for taking the challenge  ) if bounty hunting/hunters are thematically eligible for this GB?

Wikipedia describes the job as "a private agent working for bail bonds who captures fugitives or criminals for a commission or bounty. The occupation, officially known as bail enforcement agent, or fugitive recovery agent, has traditionally operated outside the legal constraints that govern police officers and other agents of the state."

Would the topic qualify, as it would give me some motivation to tackle a long-postponed project for the GB?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Outside the legal constraints of regular law enforcement but not (officially) outside the law.

It could happen outside the law.  Kidnapping individuals for a criminal syndicate

That would be "enforcers", rather than bounty hunters.

It could happen outside the law.  Kidnapping individuals ...[snip]... for a ransom might be considered a pirate activity.

Kidnapping for ransom is conducted by either kidnappers or pirates, both criminals but only one fits within the realm of this GB & kidnapping is usually conducted in conjunction with other piratical activities.

It could happen outside the law.  ...[snip]... Or maybe a government acting illegally.

That's just governments doing Secret Squirrel shi ... Stuff.

[Dizzyfugu]

OMG, how complicated... I am still not certain whether my idea would be eligible or not. But I might start it in time and post it here, so that the context becomes clearer (which i do not want to reveal at this point, it's rooted in a fictional context). We might open the discussion ihn the WiP thread then, and it could still be (re)moved into a suitable "normal" forum section, I would not mind.

The Black Flag theme does not ring many bells here, anyway, so this would probably be my only submission for this GB. And if it fails to qualify I still have a reason to start it.

Thanks a lot for consideration and discussion! 

[Weaver]

THanks Chris.


I would argue that:

1. A Bounty Hunter is somebody who legally captures people in order to claim a reward for their capture which is normally issued by a legal authority of some kind. Somebody who illegally captures people in order to claim an illegally offered reward is merely a criminal kidnapper, irrespective of whether the reward is loosly described as a 'bounty' or not. A Bounty Hunter is essentially a 'private-enterprise policeman'.

2. By the same token, a Privateer, being in possession of legal Letters of Marque issued by a legal authority, is essentailly a 'private enterprise soldier', whereas a Pirate is an illegal operator with no such permission or protection, and is merely a criminal thief. When a Privateer comes into contact with a legal authority, then whether they get treated as an illegal 'pirate' or a legal 'military subcontractor' depends on which authority they find themselves in the power of. By contrast, a true pirate is an outlaw and will be treated as a criminal by any and every legal authority they come into contact with.

Now having said all that, I fully recognize that in the real world, bounty hunters, kidnappers, pirates and privateers swim in much the same grey and murky waters, and that many an individual may wear more than one of those hats at different times or even at the same time. I would not, therefore, object to the scope of the GB being expanded to include bounty hunters and privateers, but I think that would need to be explicity stated since some kind of boundary is required.

Before somebody says it, this is NOT a contradiction of my previous post:

1st post: If we're doing a 'Pirates GB' then bounty hunters and privateers shouldn't qualify.

2nd post: If we want to expand it into a 'Pirates, Privateers and Bounty Hunters GB' then I don't object, as long as the new rules are clear and make sense.

[jcf]

OK.  Rule 2 states;

This can also include Intellectual Property piracy - unlicensed production of videos, music etc. which is different from simple theft, if you can work out how to include it.

Would this include unlicensed production of aircraft, cars, motorbikes etc?  An American motor manufacturer pirating the plans of the latest Japanese sports car and putting it into production with their own power plant and badges on it for example.

That's a perfect example and probably one of the easiest to render as a model.

The model could be presented as a model that was entered into evidence during
a court case. Exhibit A etc.


My first thought would be to get the model to primer stage, temporarily assemble
it with the proper badges take a photograph of the exterior only, ignoring interior
and engine bits, convert the image to black and white and present it as a photo of
an original clay styling mockup. Again presented as being a trial exhibit. Complete
the model as the "American" version with the Detroit badges etc., and present them
together as proof of the IP theft.

[jcf]

As to bounty hunters, that depends on era, modern bounty hunters - the boring reality
of bail-jumpers etc., rather than the dramatized crapola of Dog The Bounty Hunter isn't
realistically a former of privateering, piracy or smuggling.

However if you go back to bounty hunting in the US in the 19th Century it's an entirely different
ballgame and unregulated. Hunting "malefactors" for a reward without formal sanction is not the
same as being licensed, regulated etc., it was wide open and sometimes resulted in people being
taken, even killed, as a result of mistaken identity.

Then there is the thorny issue of slave-catchers who while authorized in the Southern states did
not have recognized authority in many Northern states and they sometimes grabbed free blacks
living in the North who were not runaways and took them South to be sold. This included people
who had lived in the North as free people for generations.

IMHO The 19th Century "Old West" version wouldn't be out of place in a post-Apocalyptic dystopian
"Mad Max" type scenario.

Just my thoughts, but I will go with whatever my fellow cutthroat Captains declare. 

[jcf]

I already mentioned this a while ago, but since we now have a place to ask (and official moderators, thanks a lot for taking the challenge  ) if bounty hunting/hunters are thematically eligible for this GB?

Wikipedia describes the job as "a private agent working for bail bonds who captures fugitives or criminals for a commission or bounty. The occupation, officially known as bail enforcement agent, or fugitive recovery agent, has traditionally operated outside the legal constraints that govern police officers and other agents of the state."

Would the topic qualify, as it would give me some motivation to tackle a long-postponed project for the GB?

Thanks a lot in advance!

In the US " ... operating outside the legal constraints ... " simply means in regards to surveillance,
use of force - within limits, no requirements for formal warrants outside of the blanket Bench Warrant,
etc., otherwise they're bound by the other basic civil laws. They're not outlaws despite the posturing
of some.

in the IP realm you could go meta and present one of your creations as being stolen and used in a
popular video game without credit and compensation. The backstory could be a legal thriller.