Avro 721 Shackleton MR.5

[zenrat]

Setting the wings back has (IMO) really improved the look of the Shack but in such away that without something to compare it to it would be hard to put ones finger on what had been done.

[The Wooksta!]

It's good but I'm not convinced by the fin - it doesn't look Avro enough.  Something like a Tudor fin or the cropped version on the Ashton would have more apt.

[Pellson]

It's good but I'm not convinced by the fin - it doesn't look Avro enough.  Something like a Tudor fin or the cropped version on the Ashton would have more apt.

I actually looked at that, using the redundant Britannia fin, but decided against as the fin looked very, very wide against the more narrow stabilisators. Your complaint is noted, though. 

[loupgarou]

And the Tudor fin is ugly...

[Tophe]

ugliness may be charm in the whif world

[Pellson]

ugliness may be charm in the whif world

True. But as the saying goes: if it looks good, it flies good.. 

[kitnut617]

Pelle, if you look at the MR.4 concept, all you would have to do is crop a bit off the top of the fin and add a dorsal fillet and you would nail it ---

[Rheged]

Yes, the MR4 tail is a possibility...............................but I suspect that Pellson has modelled the prototype.  The production MR5 may well have  reverted to the MR4 tail.

Kit's second law of Whiffery, also known as Rheged's hypothesis.  A well crafted backstory can easily "adjust" any apparent discrepancies.

[PR19_Kit]

Kit's second law of Whiffery, also known as Rheged's hypothesis.  A well crafted backstory can easily "adjust" any apparent discrepancies.

EXACTLY! 

[Pellson]

Actually, if you read up, you'll find that the MR.4 has an entirely new circular fuselage, it's longer, has longer wings and - most importantly - Napier Nomad engines. Those never made it.

Besides, some chap already built it. I prefer doing my own stuff. 

There is a backstory coming up. Just sit tight.. 

[kitnut617]

The Nomads were an option, but what is shown in the 3-View are R-3350's

[Pellson]

The Nomads were an option, but what is shown in the 3-View are R-3350's

You are now buying in on a whif.     
The Shackleton association will enlighten you.. 

On another notice - she's now glossed and ready for decals. I still have to choose decals, though. 

[kitnut617]

The Nomads were an option, but what is shown in the 3-View are R-3350's

You are now buying in on a whif.     
The Shackleton association will enlighten you..

Erm! that's where I got the 3-View from Pelle     An association member even built a model of it 

https://www.thegrowler.org.uk/avroshackleton/mark-four.htm

[Weaver]

A couple of suggestions for placement of the Martel datalink aerial.

The rear of the inboard engine nacelles where they protrude behind the wing or the wingtip tanks which should give a much larger cone of coverage. The tip of the vertical tail could be another place to put the pod as well.

Looks great so far 

Gondor

Thanks for the suggestions, Alastair. I take it you think the Sea Skua timeline is a bit too optimistic, and I can't say I disagree.

While the Buccaneers would have shot their Martel and then made a run for it, the Shackleton is so slow I don't believe it would have made any difference. Hence I think a position maximising the field of view for the control antenna would be preferable, and in that perspective, the fin tip location is really good. The alternative would be somewhere under the nose, but that would interfere with the radar, so because of that not as good.

Now off to find something pod friendly for the fin, then.. 

Sea Skua is semi-active radar homing (like a Sparrow) and has a range of only 10 miles. It's basically for attacking patrol/missile boats from outside the range of their guns: using it against a bigger warship would put you well inside the envelope of it's SAMs, and I don't think the Shack would stand much chance in that situation. Of course, if anti-FPB is all you want, it's fine: you just need a radar that has a CW illuminator function like the Lynx's Seaspray.

To my mind, the best place for Martel aerials would be in the tip tanks. Have one aerial (it's a dish BTW) in the nose of one tank (just paint the standard tank nose black) and one in the tail of the opposite tank (fit a blunt tank nose instead of the conical tail). If your MR.5 is a replacement for the Nimrod, then it would probably replace the tip tanks with ESM/ECM pods anyway. No need to go over the top though: ECM pods can be drop-tank shaped (look at the Tornado's Sky Shadow). You just have to paint some contrasting dielectric panels on them, and maybe add some air scoops for cooling.

Nimrods got their wing pylons with the intention of carrying Martel, but I don't know if they ever actually carried them in service. What they did carry was Harpoons in the bomb bay.

[Pellson]

The Nomads were an option, but what is shown in the 3-View are R-3350's

You are now buying in on a whif.     
The Shackleton association will enlighten you..

Erm! that's where I got the 3-View from Pelle     An association member even built a model of it 

https://www.thegrowler.org.uk/avroshackleton/mark-four.htm

It is an awesome site, isn't it? I spoke to Mr Styles replacement about the radar (see earlier in this thread) and also on the model. As far as I could understand, the R-3350's was one of several alternative suggested power plants, of which only the Nomad option was ever studied more closely. I think that was a pity - had they gone for a turboprop, the chances are pretty high that they never would have needed the Nimrod. The P-3A Orion entered service in 1962, and its basic airframe is still doing the job, and not only for third world customers (if you don't consider Germany having deteriorated badly over the last few years.. ). As the MR.4 was essentially an entirely new aircraft compared to the MR.3, a more longsighted power plant choice maybe would have created a serious Orion contender.

Anyway - the MR.4 of Mr Styles is magnificent and not something I am aiming to replicate. I'm more adhering to the Japanese thinking when they deferred the expense of the Orion, preferring a substantial upgrade/rebuild of the Neptune. I shall return to this within the scope of the backstory. There is a thought behind the madness. 

Mr Weaver, Sir! Re the Martel control system antennae - thank you! This was really good information, and exactly what I needed. 

Re the Sea Skua - the idea there was, as you say, for small boat picking, such as drug/weapon runners, Iranian Boghammar boats etc, looking at a Sharjah or Aden-based machine.
In any case, I think the Martel will fit my timeline and the more North Atlantic paint scheme I chose better, so there we are.