F-86 as MiG-17 adversary trainer, Groom Lake *finished*

[sandiego89]

F-86 as MiG-17 adversary, Groom Lake/Tonapah Test Range, 1970. 

With the technical and tactical evaluations of the captured HAVE DRILL and HAVE FERRY MiG-17's conducted in 1969, the United States had a good understanding of the MiG-17s attributes and led to a training mantra stressing "speed is life" to US aircrews, and to never engage the MiG-17 in a dogfight below 350 knots. 

While the MiG-17s were very useful, they were deemed too valuable for routine adversary training and were not usually available for complex multi-ship engagements (HAVE VERY was usually a backup aircraft), some forward-thinking trainers hatched an idea to outfit several F-86's as MiG-17 stand-ins. The F-86 was smallish, shared some similarities to the MiG-17 in handling, appearance, and configuration, and could be used to mimic multi-ship MiG-17 tactics.

Needed a straightforward project, and want to try some camouflage techniques.

1/72 Airfix Canadair Sabre F.4/F-86E 



A similar layout between the F-86 and the MiG-17



F-86 seems about 15% bigger overall.  Nicely the book drawing is also 1/72 scale. 




     

[Geoff]

Love the idea

[Wardukw]

Makes sense to me..if you cant get the real thing ..then get the thing closest to them..i like this idea.
In the army we had things that looked simlier but didnt do what they were ment to of course but this is so much better.
Now adays of course if you wanted 50 Mig 17s they'd sell em to ya ..bit late tho 

[Rick Lowe]

Cool - I saw a photo of an A-4 they'd done this to IRL (still in my "Cool enough to build... sometime..." file), but in Whif-World why couldn't they have used an F-86? 

[KiwiZac]

What a fascinating concept, I love it!

[comrade harps]

I like the sounds of this 

Cool - I saw a photo of an A-4 they'd done this to IRL (still in my "Cool enough to build... sometime..." file), but in Whif-World why couldn't they have used an F-86? 

This one: https://www.hyperscale.com/features/2001/a4mig17da_1.htm

[tahsin]

Top Gun really wanted to have F-86s but USAF was not interested and USN had not yet fully warmed up. So when a few were tested it wasn't a positive experience. Possibly too old airframes with very poor logistics.

[Rick Lowe]

I like the sounds of this 

Cool - I saw a photo of an A-4 they'd done this to IRL (still in my "Cool enough to build... sometime..." file), but in Whif-World why couldn't they have used an F-86? 

This one: https://www.hyperscale.com/features/2001/a4mig17da_1.htm

Very probably, though I first saw it in a very old 'Scale Modeler'

[sandiego89]

If you are going to look like a MiG-17, you gotta have wing fences....

[zenrat]

You mounting the stabs half way up the vertical tail on that Dave?

[sandiego89]

You mounting the stabs half way up the vertical tail on that Dave?

Gone back and forth on that several times, while the higher stabilizer would surely make it look more like a MiG-17, but don't think I will.  Going with a more plausible scenario that they wanted more of a quick and easy cosmetic MiG-17 mimic, not an expensive and complex modification.   

[Snowtrooper]

You mounting the stabs half way up the vertical tail on that Dave?

Gone back and forth on that several times, while the higher stabilizer would surely make it look more like a MiG-17, but don't think I will.  Going with a more plausible scenario that they wanted more of a quick and easy cosmetic MiG-17 mimic, not an expensive and complex modification.

You could also claim that the wing fences were installed to strenghten the wing to withstand repeated high G loads and to extend the flying hours much further, avoiding a complete rebuild of the wing that would have been due soon otherwise.

[zenrat]

Probably the right decision as to move them would require major structural changes to the fin.  IRL anyway.  In scale it's obviously much easier.   

FWIW i'd move them.

[sandiego89]

Added some big cannons, and a splitter plate in the intake

[Wardukw]

Probably the right decision as to move them would require major structural changes to the fin.  IRL anyway.  In scale it's obviously much easier.   

FWIW i'd move them.

The model world is so much easier than the real world..lets see how easy it would be to put a MBT turret on top of a HUMVEE in the real world