Avro Anson query

[kitbasher]

Request for help, please.  Does anyone have either a copy of Air Britain's 'The Anson File' or the Almark Publications 'Avro Anson Marks I, III, IV & X'?  If so, what information does it contain regarding Anson I N9615 and are there any associated illustrations?

Many thanks in advance.

[jcf]

R.W.R. Walker's RCAF serials site has this:

N9615
Avro Anson Mk. I / IV 652A

First date: 11 March 1941 - Taken on strength at Canada Car & Foundry at Amherst, NS

To No. 3 Training Command on 24 March 1941, for use at No. 31 General Reconnaissance School at Charlottetown, PEI.
To No. 17 Aircraft Inspection Detachment at Moncton, NB, then to Canada Car & Foundry at Amherst, NS on 19 April 1943,
for overhaul and conversion to Mk. IV.
To No. 1 Training Command on 20 November 1943. Pending disposal from 25 October 1944.
To No. 1 Air Command on 15 January 1945, still pending disposal.
Stored at No. 4 Reserve Equipment Maintenance Unit at Brantford, Ontario, where it was reported with 2067:35 total time,
667:00 since overhaul.

last date: 16 August 1946 - Struck off, to War Assets Corporation for sale

I'm guessing you're after what it looked like after conversion to the R-760 Whirlwind engines, R9816 was
the prototype for the conversion and there are some photos out there, some of which are "copyrighted" by
various outfits selling reproduction rights and copies, which is bogus as the majority of the photos are either
public domain or owned by governments with no limitations on use. Grasping bastids the lot.


Here's one photo of R9816 after conversion.


Another view from the side (one of the we own it examples):

Direct link if it doesn't hot-link:
https://www.aviationphotocompany.com/img/s/v-10/p898836790-3.jpg

To my eye it resembles the R-985 installation of the Canadian built Anson V, but not as
smooth because of an odd diameter change between the nacelle and the engine cowling,
odd because the R-760 has a smaller diameter than an A-S Cheetah.



Mk. V with R-985.

[kitbasher]

Thanks very much, sir.

My query stems from a long-standing urge to build a 1/72 Anson as flown in by my Uncle Charlie in WW2.  He was a wireless operator, initially in an army cooperation ground role in France, 1940.    Following aircrew training/aircrew duties at No 2 School of General Reconnaissance, RAF Squires Gate (now Blackpool Airport) he served with No 31 General Reconnaissance School RAF/RCAF Charlottetown Feb 1941-Dec 1943.
Have been lent his logbook to pore over.  In 1941 he flew in N9615 no less than 74 times.  Yet to go through 1942-1943 but there are some very frequently used 'cabs' in there!  Had already found an Anson production list website, so the RCAF site you pointed me to will significantly help flesh out airframe histories.
I think a dive into online second-hand book stores is needed to see if the two can be bought at reasonable prices.

Thanks again, the pics should be helpful as I suspect many of the Anson Is he flew in were converted to IVs.

[Gondor]

I had a look on eBay and Amazon yesterday and only found one Air Britain's 'The Anson File' on eBay for £45 or so. I keep forgetting that Air Britian did a nice series of books so I have now bookmarked the search I used. Several of the books by them that I did see were all about aircraft serial numbers. I have their book 'K Files' which deals with aircraft whoes serials start with the letter K funnily enough  Ideal for modelling inter war aircraft. Perhaps looking for the book which covers the serial you are looking for might be an option?

Gondor

[kitbasher]

Thanks Gondor.  Maybe - though he flew in a lot of Ansons during his 31 GRS time (ranging from K-serials to at least AX-series plus some Canadian-serialled airframes) so I think a trawl for second hand copies of the Anson books might be the better (and cheaper!) bet.

[kitbasher]

Yes I think a second-hand copy of 'The Anson File' is what I need, with the Almark book the reserve option.

Uncle Charlie flew in 18 different Anson Is while at No 2 School of General Reconnaissance.  Between Feb 41 and Jun 42 alone whilst at No 31 General Reconnaissance School he flew in another 57 different 57 Anson Is (plus another he'd flown at 2 SGR that followed him across the Atlantic).  Top scorer at the moment is R3434 - he flew in it as the WTOp 27 times during 1941 and 65 times Jan-Jun 42 (with a lot more to come, yet to count them!).

Interesting comparison between his flying career and that of my Uncle Bill.  Charlie flew just under 85 night hours between June 40 and June 43; Bill flew a shade over 100 hours night hours in four months on 550 Sqn (and got shot at!).

BTW it's been a long-standing aim to build one of their aircraft.  Bits and bobs for the 550 Sqn build have been long sorted out, but the Ansons are so far proving very elusive in terms of colour schemes (although I think I know what this will be) and serial/code tie-ups.

[kitbasher]

A day at the fantastic National Archives rummaging through the war diaries of 2 SGR and 31 GRS.  Frustrating in that aircraft serials and codes are mentioned but there's no tie-ins and there's only one photo of a 31 GRS coded/serialled Anson (and that was in a copy of the Station magazine!).

But nevertheless a fascinating read.  One oddity, though - I always thought it was decided in or around 1942 that non-commissioned aircrew would all be senior NCOs (sergeant and above) as it was assumed that as such they'd be better treated if captured.  Yet Uncle Charlie was mentioned in a duty crew list as an LAC WOp in late 42/early 43 when Uncle Bill was a trainee sergeant air gunner.

So did the SNCO status thing not apply to non-commissioned staff aircrew (as opposed to student aircrew) at British Commonwealth Air Training Plan training units (and did they become SNCOs when repatriated to the UK or posted to theatres of war)?

[NARSES2]

That's the "trouble" with the National Archives, you always end up with more questions then you went with 

Spent a few amazing days there helping a mate research his grandfather's RGA battery WWI unit diaries. Always found it incredible that even in the middle of the great retreats of both 1914 and 1918 they still found the time to write these things out in impeccable handwriting. 

[Rheged]

That's the "trouble" with the National Archives, you always end up with more questions then you went with 

Spent a few amazing days there helping a mate research his grandfather's RGA battery WWI unit diaries. Always found it incredible that even in the middle of the great retreats of both 1914 and 1918 they still found the time to write these things out in impeccable handwriting. 

Archive  research, defined as the thinking persons way of wasting time.........but fascinating, and I agree that the standard of handwriting is usually superb.

[kitbasher]

That's the "trouble" with the National Archives, you always end up with more questions then you went with 

Yeah but good reasons to go back!

Need to spend one more hour in the 31 GRS diary to cross-check a few things against Uncle Charlie's logbook.  He flew a total of 853 times (1840 hours 15 mins) in 91 individual Anson Is (136 times in R3434 alone).  This includes a handful from the first production batch.

Also will be delving into 2 Bn The Loyals to see what they were up to in 1944-45.

[zenrat]

...Always found it incredible that even in the middle of the great retreats of both 1914 and 1918 they still found the time to write these things out in impeccable handwriting. 

...I agree that the standard of handwriting is usually superb.

The bloke doing the writing was probly excused other, more onerous (or dangerous) duties.

[NARSES2]

...Always found it incredible that even in the middle of the great retreats of both 1914 and 1918 they still found the time to write these things out in impeccable handwriting. 

...I agree that the standard of handwriting is usually superb.

The bloke doing the writing was probly excused other, more onerous (or dangerous) duties.

Quite possibly in "normal" circumstances but there were some interesting comments in the diaries that cover the retreats that suggest he wasn't.

[kitnut617]

...Always found it incredible that even in the middle of the great retreats of both 1914 and 1918 they still found the time to write these things out in impeccable handwriting. 

...I agree that the standard of handwriting is usually superb.

The bloke doing the writing was probly excused other, more onerous (or dangerous) duties.

Quite possibly in "normal" circumstances but there were some interesting comments in the diaries that cover the retreats that suggest he wasn't.

My Grand Uncle was killed at Vimy Ridge but I had never found out how. Last year though, I was going through a binder my Uncle gave me which was all about the Grand Uncles who settled in Alberta in 1900. There is hundreds of letters written to the family back in Manchester and quite a lot from the GU who went to war. One letter was from a compatriot to the GU's mom describing how the Grand Uncle died. Apparently, a German counter attack was happening and to counter that, all the troops being held in the rear trenches were move forward, my GU being one of them. A shell exploded close by and shrapnel from it hit my GU killing him instantly. The compatriot was also injured but survived to write about it, some months later.