What-if RAF aircraft update?

[uk 75]

Some of you may remember the rather rough and ready list of variant aircraft for the RAF that was kindly put on the site a year or so ago.  It is now rather out of date, but did provide a useful single document summary of plane types and when and how they might have served with the RAF.

For new visitors to the site maybe we could compile an archive or similar so that all the Posts about a theme are available for new subscribers, eg discussions on colours and squadrons for particular planes or airforces?

UK 75
Ralph Morton

[Geoff_B]

ohh nice idea Ralph, but this could end up as quite an essay given current research & modelling projects, but such are the Joys of What-if ? !!!!!.

Cheers

Geoff B

[TsrJoe]

yeah ill agree with this one...be cool if it was verified as factual or referenced too tho...providing a true resource ? as iv found through my own researches, theres so much stuff in the 'real' world which was studied or evaluated without recourse to hypotheticals ! (no offence! btw. this is just a personal opinion !)

ok here goes for starters... some Australian stuff...

Lockheed F.104A/C Starfighter, RAAF., 1958

BAC. Jet Provost 5, RAAF., 1965

NA. RA.5C Vigilante, RAAF., 1962 (favoured)
Vickers Valiant,  RAAF., 1963
Boeing R/B.47E Stratofort, RAA., 1963
BAC. TSR.2 Eagle, RAAF, 1963
Convair B.58A Hustler, RAAF., 1961
Dassault Mirage IVO, RAAF., 1963

SAAB. AJ/JA.37 Viggen, RAAF., 1972
Dassault Mirage F.1, RAAF., 1972

Grumman F.14B Tomcat, RAAF, 1975 (favoured)
MDD. F.15A Eagle, RAAF, 1975

MDD. AV.8B, RAN. (A.4 replacement)


...lots more to follow...ill update this page too as/when i find more confirmed evals...

[Bryan H.]

For the RAN, lets get a "CVA-01"- type carrier; maybe stretch it out a little.  I really like the A-4G Skyhawks but I think the RAN need to upgrade them some.  They could also use some F-14 Tomcat 21's and Buccaneers.  Maybe they could use a flight of RA-5's.  If they can't upgrade the S-2/E-1's, let's modify some S-3's.  They need a Viking AEW/Erieye version & a more standard ASW/tanker version.

The lineup would look like this...

2 sqdns. - 24 aircraft: modernized A-4G's
1 sqdn. - 8 aircraft: Tomcat 21 F/A-14's
1 sqdn. - 8 aircraft: Modernized Buccaneers
1 flt. - 3 aircraft: Modernized RA-5's
1 flt. - 3 aircraft: AEW/Erieye S-3 Vikings
1 flt. - 3 aircraft: ASW/tanker S-3 Vikings
1 flt. - 3 aircraft: ASW/planeguard/utility helicopters

Total aircraft: 52

If the Vigilantes are impractical/improbable, I think they could be replaced with more Tomcat 21's & Buccaneers to good advantage.

Bryan

Oh...  and the RN might like a setup like this also?!?!  ^_^  

[elmayerle]

S-2/E-1/C-1 upgreades are fairly easy, either the PT6A or TPE331-14-powered versions of the S-2T and equivalent conversions for the E-1 and C-1.  Upgrade the E-1 with a more mdoern radar, either one from the E-2 or something liek Erricson's one for the Swedes and Brazilians.

[lancer]

As Thor says, this could be quite a project. It's also a damm good one to go ahead with. BUT, I think it needs a small cadre of volunteers to actually put it together, perhaps offline abd then post it up as an article or more accurately a full blown reference document on a different part of the site for all to use, instead of it being posted in the forum and lost.

Comments anyone?

[NARSES2]

As Thor says, this could be quite a project. It's also a damm good one to go ahead with. BUT, I think it needs a small cadre of volunteers to actually put it together, perhaps offline abd then post it up as an article or more accurately a full blown reference document on a different part of the site for all to use, instead of it being posted in the forum and lost.

Comments anyone?

You mean form a sub-committee Lance ? Sound's a good idea as otherwise it will just snowball in an uncontrolled manner and become unworkable - I think you have just voted yourself as chair. The idea of posting the complete document in some form or another is an excellent idea.

Won't volunteer myself as it's not really my period

Chris

[Geoff_B]

You mean form a sub-committee Lance ? Sound's a good idea as otherwise it will just snowball in an uncontrolled manner and become unworkable - I think you have just voted yourself as chair. The idea of posting the complete document in some form or another is an excellent idea.

Actually i would recomend Ralph as he propossed the idea plus being more a researcher than a modeller allows for a more accurate list. Joes looking at only viable options, ie they were considered at some point as oppoesed to purer flights of fancy.

One aspect of all this will be structure as it will be more a family Tree stucture as various decisions post war affected the development of the aircraft (1957 Defence Review, 1965 culling of major projects, etc)

An interesting one to think about we'll have to think about how to approach this so the data can be collected, discussed and approved before creating the final summary. (Hmmn Lee isn't this going to be the background basis for and RAF/FAA version John Baxters book ?)

Cheers

Geoff B  B)  

[Bryan H.]

Sound's rather involved...  Do we submit ideas to the committee & they give the yea-or-nea?  I'm a bit confused as to how this would work.  

Bryan  

[lancer]

I agree that Ralph should chair it as I think it need's a researcher to head it up. I'm more than willing to do my bit.  

[Bryan H.]

Ralph's got a head start on the subject.  His whif RAF, RN, RAAF & RAN lists are all very good.  Is it just a matter of gathering together all the threads about British subjects into one database or is this something different?

Bryan

[elmayerle]

I suspect that one could put considerable effort into doing a hyperlinked document looking at forking points and the results of each fork on further forking points.  At least the major ones would have aicraft lists attached.  Mind you, there'd likely be duplication/overlap between some, but ti'd be a fascinating exercise.

[The Rat]

I suspect that one could put considerable effort into doing a hyperlinked document looking at forking points and the results of each fork on further forking points.

Forkin' right!

But seriously, if we're talking 'viable options' rather than  flights of fancy,  how do we decide on 'viable'? The only aircraft I see mentioned which never entered service anywhere is the TSR2, but surely there are others. Things like the SRA1, Short Sperrin, and SR53 come to mind, as they all flew and were seriously considered at one time or another.

[uk 75]

I am certainly happy to try and collate material, though I am handicapped by only having access to a computer in our local library, and not being too computer savvie.

What I will try and do (but only for the RAF/RN initially) is produce a word document version of an updated version of my list of types, but giving any alternatives suggested by contributors to this site, and where I can remember them, sources.

I will then post this in parts on the site or e-mail to people who are interested.

UK 75

Ralph Morton

ps I think John Baxter has the RAAF down cold,so nothing to add there.  I do have some ideas on the Luftwaffe and Armeede l'Air as they overlap my RAF/RN.

pps  The alternate fiction USAF orders of battle mentioned on the site from Seer Stuart seem to have vanished. They were rather good.

[Swamphen]

pps  The alternate fiction USAF orders of battle mentioned on the site from Seer Stuart seem to have vanished. They were rather good.

Here's what I could find for the TBOverse:

US Fighters 1947-2004
US Bombers 1940-2004

US Force Structure 1959
US Force Structure 1965
US Force Structure 1972
US Force Structure 1986