What-if RAF aircraft update?

[P1127]

Some others:

Do 27 - evaluated at AAEE for contract that Beaver was ordered under

Hughes 269A - evaluated for AAC
Brantly B2 - ditto

[Matt Wiser]

Add the F-4E, RF-4C/E, and F-4G for the RAF: McAir did have studies of Spey-engined versions of the former two, and one could have McAir extend the F-4 production line to do an RAF G order in 1979 (when the F-4 assembly line shut down). An argument could also be made for the RAF getting the A-6 and EA-6B as well as an alternative to the F-111. If the RAF had gone ahead with the F-111, they would have considered the EF-111 also if no EA-6B buy.

[elmayerle]

Add the F-4E, RF-4C/E, and F-4G for the RAF: McAir did have studies of Spey-engined versions of the former two, and one could have McAir extend the F-4 production line to do an RAF G order in 1979 (when the F-4 assembly line shut down). An argument could also be made for the RAF getting the A-6 and EA-6B as well as an alternative to the F-111. If the RAF had gone ahead with the F-111, they would have considered the EF-111 also if no EA-6B buy.

Spey-engined F-4E = F-4L according to McAir documentation.  I'm very, very tempted to do one as a Phantom FG.3 in Desert Storm markings and with an "interesting" weapons load.

[Jschmus]

Hmm.  Verry, verry interresting.

F-4L Phantom II

[elmayerle]

Hmm.  Verry, verry interresting.

F-4L Phantom II

Well, the reference I was going by was the Aerofax Minigraph on the F-4E which listed a number of other McAir gun-armed Phantom studies.  Since I know Jay got this from McAir documents (I've seen the original while visiting him), I'll go with this designation as 'tis.

[NARSES2]

[An idea very similar to mine.  I wanted to make my swallow a high altitude interceptor.

Mine's in the classic RAF high altitude scheme of Med Sea Grey & PR Blue   it's armed with a pair of pooded 37mm's copied from the Russian NR design - in return for all the aid the Russian's suplly the UK/US with various tools/paterns/designs - note "Russian's" they are no longer "Soviet's" in my scenario.

Chris

[TsrJoe]

the other 'Spey Phantoms' are definately of interest...is there any reference notes to say if these were these put forward as possible export designs or as developed US. Navy proposals (it is known the USN. were interested in using the Spey for a number of types...F.111B, A.7 etc.)

other UK. Phantoms...

MDD. F.4VS Phantom, RAF. ('swing wing')
MDD./BAC. F.4HL, Royal Navy ('big wing')

happy modelling, cheers, joe  

ps others to add to the listing from the files (def ones for Dave, etal.!)

Lockheed Hummingbird, Joint Services
Bell D.188 VTO. RAF.
MDD./BAe. AV.16, RAF./RN.
Sikorsky Seahawk, Royal Navy (frigates, etc)
Sikorsky Blackhawk, Joint Services

[Geoff_B]

The F-4(HL) is rather nice with the revised wing and additional fuselage plug, this could also have been a better basis for the F-4L as it had better small carrier capabilities (Marine Nationale as Crusader replacement ?)

G B)  

[Geoff_B]

Sikorsky Seahawk, Royal Navy (frigates, etc)
Sikorsky Blackhawk, Joint Services

As in Westland Sikorsky  B)

Another for the list would be the NH-90 as were were part of the program then pulled out due to funding and now it looks as if we may yet still replace Lynx/Puma/Seaking with NH-90 but as a subsidury rather than equal partner !!!!!!.

(The Treasury has just vetoed Hoon placing the development contract with Augusta Westland  before the election for the Lynx development preferring an open bid to see which will be the most cost effective).

G

[P1127]

Another for the list would be the NH-90 as were were part of the program then pulled out due to funding and now it looks as if we may yet still replace Lynx/Puma/Seaking with NH-90 but as a subsidury rather than equal partner !!!!!!.

(The Treasury has just vetoed Hoon placing the development contract with Augusta Westland  before the election for the Lynx development preferring an open bid to see which will be the most cost effective).

There was reports in the press a few months back about the AAC getting a small number of NH90 transport variants for Special Forces use (Chinooks that can't fly at night or below 500ft presumably not being ideal to that task).

There are also the Nimrod and AEW replacement contracts, where the competitors were well known - e.g. P-3 with Hawkeye radar for the AEW, or even the Hawkrod, Nimrod airframe with Hawkeye rotodome & avionics(Was the C-130 AEW in that one?); P-3 and Atlantique NG for the AS contract.

Dunno if it was ever a serious evaluation, but Micheal Portillo was reported to want to order F-16s to bridge the Eurofighter gap in the early 90s.

Might be worth a Freedom of Information Act request!!

[TsrJoe]

...does anyone have any drawings or sketches of the 'rotodome Nimrod' or 'Hawkrod'? iv started assembling a Nimrod vacform (cheers Geoff) and have a spare Hawkeye rotodome to hand to model this interesting design, unfortunately the only info iv found so far is the sketch in Roy Boot's excellent 'Spitfire to Eurofighter'

cheers, joe

[nev]

Why would we need to buy NH90s when we have the Merlin?    

[Geoff_B]

Why would we need to buy NH90s when we have the Merlin? 

Hi Nev

Because we need something smaller and lighter to replace the Lynx, Merlin is a large capable helo, but we need a smaller one for carrying squads into the battlefield. Considering we were a founding partner and pulled out it kinda makes us look completely useless wallies again. (especially as i think it was Blairs lot who pulled us out thinking a lynx rebuild would be better for us - now the Nimrod rebuild has shown how expensive this practice actually is and that the lynx is still a little on the small side for a battlefield taxi, The NH-90 would still appear the obvious replacement)

G

[Matt Wiser]

The UK can always give Sikorsky a call and order Blackhawks. Plenty of satisified customers (Army, AF, Navy, Australia, Israel, ROK, Saudi, Jordan, among others).
Combat-proven and dependable.

[Jschmus]

Hmm.  Verry, verry interresting.

F-4L Phantom II

Well, the reference I was going by was the Aerofax Minigraph on the F-4E which listed a number of other McAir gun-armed Phantom studies.  Since I know Jay got this from McAir documents (I've seen the original while visiting him), I'll go with this designation as 'tis.

I wasn't trying to contradict you or anything.  It just seemed like a nifty idea.  Spey-engined Phantoms operating off the Essex-class carriers sounded neat.  That could have led to the Essex boats staying in the water longer.  If they survived till the late 70s-early 80s, that means all those little CVs transitioning to F/A-18s down the line.  Hmm.  Does anyone make a 1/700 Bon Homme Richard (or any of the other angled-deck Essex)?  I'm envisioning one with all the 80s upgrade hardware.  When they are finally paid off, they could be sold to assorted allies.

Sorry, I've drifted a ways off-topic.