Britain's bergship: A 1/350 scale HMS Habakkuk "ice" aircraft carrier.

[kerick]

I have read that the pycrete hull was almost impervious to torpedo attack as the ice would just chip off a little. I know torpedoes were tried against icebergs with little result. So probably very little threat from U boats and out of range of German aircraft. Such an interesting concept, would have been crazy if actually built.

[seadude]

I have read that the pycrete hull was almost impervious to torpedo attack as the ice would just chip off a little. I know torpedoes were tried against icebergs with little result. So probably very little threat from U boats and out of range of German aircraft. Such an interesting concept, would have been crazy if actually built.

How much damage a torpedo could do to pykrete is unknown. No real tests were carried out with torpedoes and pykrete back in WW2. I would guess that the amount of damage a torpedo would do is dependent on how many torpedoes were attacking the Habakkuk, the size of the torpedo, size of the warhead, and how fast the torpedo was going.

Anyway............concerning the earlier discussion about Lancaster aircraft. For the last week or two, I've been following a page on Facebook titled "Alternate Fleet & Wings Papercraft".
https://www.facebook.com/people/Alternate-Fleet-Wings-Papercraft/100076855777085/
Some of the new posts on that page discuss a large papercraft model that a person wants to build. I do not know who this person is, but I have been following his posts with much interest. Some screenshots of one of his posts are below.

Also, I found this Japanese Youtube video of a person making a 1/3000 scale Habakkuk model. Not sure if it's actually a model a person bought or if it was 3D printed by the Japanese modeler himself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyvgrBSkew4

[kerick]

Since the idea behind this ship was to defeat U boats I was just thinking about just how big of a radar you could put on a very tall mast to find surfaced U boats. I don't recall ever seeing a pic of one of these with a radar mast. Seems like something suited to the mission.

[Rheged]

Re the catapult, these may possibly be of some minimal use:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm0jqrmS6jk

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/archaeologists-unearth-world-war-ii-era-air-catapult-system-in-uk/

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/media/avro-manchester-mk-1.5708/

https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/catapult-designed-to-launch-world-war-ii-bomber-planes-unearthed-in-england

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/harwell-rae-mark-iii-catapult-4dd86f006232480f84fee98d96ac4b5f?sscid=b1k7_e1bta&utm_source=shareasale&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=314743_1272560

https://www.mola.org.uk/discoveries/news/excavations-harwell-investigate-experimental-ww2-catapult

[Gondor]

Since the idea behind this ship was to defeat U boats I was just thinking about just how big of a radar you could put on a very tall mast to find surfaced U boats. I don't recall ever seeing a pic of one of these with a radar mast. Seems like something suited to the mission.

It's a floating airfield. Aircraft on patrol find the U boats or even convoys find them, then aircraft from the Habakkuk fly to the target and sink them. No need for the airfield to have a search radar.

Gondor

[seadude]

Since the idea behind this ship was to defeat U boats I was just thinking about just how big of a radar you could put on a very tall mast to find surfaced U boats. I don't recall ever seeing a pic of one of these with a radar mast. Seems like something suited to the mission.

Oh, there are some artist concept sketches and such that do show a radar mast on the Habakkuk island superstructure. Nothing fancy mind you. When the designers were planning Habakkuk in 1943/1944, discussions and plans had not yet advanced to the point on what radar systems the vessels were going to have. At least, nothing that I have seen from all the research I've done so far. If you go back to Page 1 of my thread, I discussed the possibility of the Habakkuk being built with American ESSEX class aircraft carrier systems so as to get the ships built and equipped as expediantly as possible.
So if you want to know what radar systems a Habakkuk vessel could potentially have such as air search, surface search, etc., look at what Essex class carriers (or maybe even American battleships) had in the 1943/1944 timeframe.
For example, you had the SK (square type) or SK-2 (round parabolic type) air search radars. And there was a small SG surface search radar. Pics are attached below.
And would the Habakkuk have had sonar systems? Highly doubtful. Where would they be located and how would they be attached to the hull?
And let's not forget that a Habakkuk vessel will most likely have additional escort ships near it to help give expanded radar coverage.

Re the catapult, these may possibly be of some minimal use:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm0jqrmS6jk

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/archaeologists-unearth-world-war-ii-era-air-catapult-system-in-uk/

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/media/avro-manchester-mk-1.5708/

https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/catapult-designed-to-launch-world-war-ii-bomber-planes-unearthed-in-england

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/harwell-rae-mark-iii-catapult-4dd86f006232480f84fee98d96ac4b5f?sscid=b1k7_e1bta&utm_source=shareasale&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=314743_1272560

https://www.mola.org.uk/discoveries/news/excavations-harwell-investigate-experimental-ww2-catapult

Thanks for those links. Pity that aircraft catapult never got used. Would have been quite the sight.
I also found this Youtube video too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3k1Jp8jnaE

[kerick]

It clearly needs the air search radar to keep track of its own aircraft. I was thinking of the surface search scanning for surfaced subs. Small target so no idea what the range would be.

[seadude]

It clearly needs the air search radar to keep track of its own aircraft. I was thinking of the surface search scanning for surfaced subs. Small target so no idea what the range would be.

As I said, the Habakkuk could probably use the SG type surface search radar that American battleships and carriers used.
Scroll down this link to find specifics on the SG, SK, and SK-2 radars. http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_Radar_WWII.php
But the Habakkuk will definately also have various escort ships to help in air and surface search, as well as it's own aircraft to search for German subs.

EDIT: Now if you want to compare the linked US WW2 systems above to some of those used by the British in WW2, here's another link to British radar systems: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_Radar.php

[zenrat]

I have nothing to add to Rheged's links above.

Except this picture I found on BTS.

[seadude]

Ok, getting back to work here. Sorry there's been more "discussion" in this thread instead of actual model work/progress, folks. I'm sure some of you are getting tired of just reading text and not seeing actual photos. I apologise.
Well, here's some more work on the 1/350 scale representation of the small Habakkuk "houseboat" prototype I built.
Information about the actual Habakkuk prototype is found back in Post # 60 at the beginning of Page 5 of this thread.
I could also have made a small interior cutaway of the Habakkuk prototype too to add to my display base. But I figured the small size (2" x 1") would be a bit too hard for my eyesight to try and detail an interior.
For what I got finished right now, I think it will work out ok. Eventually in the future, I may go back and detail it a bit more with possibly some photoetch figures and/or work vehicles/machinery around the prototype. Not sure yet.
Once I have this on the display base in the future, I'll also write up a small informational plaque to put next to it to describe the structure and it's purpose.
The wording will probably be the following, but changes could still be made:
"This is a 1/350 scale representation of the Habakkuk prototype "houseboat" that was built on Patricia Lake near Jasper, Alberta, Canada in early 1943. The structure was constructed with regular ice (Not pykrete.) cut from the lake and built to test various construction materials and techniques in preparation for possibly building a full size Habakkuk vessel. The prototype measured 60 feet long x 30 feet wide x 20 feet high, and weighed 1,000 tons. Despite the heavy weight of the structure, the large amount of ice used in construction did help to keep the building somewhat buoyant with only half the structure below the lake surface and the other half above the surface. When tests were completed, the refrigeration machinery was turned off inside the structure and the building was left to "melt" during the summer months until it finally sank in the lake later in 1943."
 

[seadude]

In other news.............
Continuing to work on a small 1/350 scale German Type VII C u-boat to add to my future display base for size comparison next to the much larger 1/350 Habakkuk model.
Hope to have the sub finished this weekend.
After that, then I'll start working on the cutaway cross section that I mentioned back in Post # 80 on Page 6 of this thread.

Does anybody translate Japanese?
While browsing the Net for more Habakkuk reference material, I stumbled across the following pics.    Japan had a 2023 Winter WonderFest toy/hobby trade show.
What caught my eye was that somebody (or some company) started to produce/market/sell 1/3000 scale (About 8" inches long) HMS Habakkuk model kits.
To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time I have ever seen anybody do this. I have seen other Habakkuk miniatures (Much smaller) before in the past sold by 1 or 2 companies, but they were at best described as wargaming miniatures and not true model kits. Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyvgrBSkew4&t=2s
Don't ask me what the huge battleship is next to the Habakkuk model which appears to be the same length as the Habakkuk as I have no idea. I think it's another Japanese what if type ship which is probably sold seperately.

EDIT: Just because you see large four-engined aircraft siting on the model in the below pics does NOT necessarily mean the Habakkuk could carry such large aircraft in real life. What a Habakkuk vessel could or could not carry for aircraft has already been explained in past pages in this thread.

[NARSES2]

The very large battleship has to be Japanese given it's got "Pagoda" style bridge etc, but that's all I can offer.

[Old Wombat]

Pretty sure the nearest (smallest) ship is Yamato, which was pretty close to, if not actually, the largest battleship ever built up to that time.

The other is some kind of fantasy ship; either a proposed/napkin Japanese design or from some manga/anime.

Here we go! Found it! IJN Zipang from 1912!



From: https://www.reddit.com/r/megalophobia/comments/16xy5sd/japans_1912_ultradreadnought_project_ijn_zipang/?rdt=65195

Click here for Google Images

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Including Secret Projects

[seadude]

Pretty sure the nearest (smallest) ship is Yamato, which was pretty close to, if not actually, the largest battleship ever built up to that time.

The other is some kind of fantasy ship; either a proposed/napkin Japanese design or from some manga/anime.

Here we go! Found it! IJN Zipang from 1912!



From: https://www.reddit.com/r/megalophobia/comments/16xy5sd/japans_1912_ultradreadnought_project_ijn_zipang/?rdt=65195

Click here for Google Images

Click here for Google Search

Including Secret Projects

Yeah, I think you're right. The model isn't perfect, but it's a close representation. And even if it's not the Zipang, it must be some other Japanese what if.
Hmmmm. Zipang vs. Habakkuk? No contest. Zipang would totally beat the Habakkuk. 
https://www.historicmysteries.com/ijn-zipang/
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2Fun8n2r3YSfmTd-YZE2fiDNTnNwZt6Ji9so4V-AluxkY.png%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D7dade818504f2986899c3e7f9bcbe72d7fc737bf

[PR19_Kit]

Hmmmm. Zipang vs. Habakkuk? No contest. Zipang would totally beat the Habakkuk. 

Depends how many bombers carrying BIG bombs the Habakkuk could get off the deck before the Zipang got within gun range......................