Ukraine

[kerick]

Lots of countries will have to increase production of all kinds of products to keep up and resupply themselves if this keeps up.

[Weaver]

Lots of countries will have to increase production of all kinds of products to keep up and resupply themselves if this keeps up.

Heard yesterday that the USA is asking South Korea to supply it with extra munitions to make up the shortfall...

[Dizzyfugu]

Poland is also turning to South Korea as weapon supplier (primarily tanks) because they feel that Germany is somewhat slow to react on orders if things become rough. I am not certain if shipping tanks in from Far East is a better idea? 

Concerning (whiffy) aircraft for the Urkaine, there should be some freshly retired Mirage 2000s available in France, too?

I recently had the idea of an Ukrainian Alpha Jet, but delivered in the Nineties when the Luftwaffe retired and sold them. Did not enter hardware stage so far because I found it too political at the moment.

[Martin H]

Ex Austrian Tranche 1 Typhoons - 9yes implausible due to support needed)

One option thats been put forward for Typhoon is to use the spare/older birds in the inventory to replace the Fulcrums in Polish use. To free them up for donation to Ukraine.

[Pellson]

Did not enter hardware stage so far because I found it too political at the moment.

Bad excuse! Get to it! I want to see what it will be like, i.e. what armament you'll hang under it during this war emergency. 

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

There's as many views on this topic as there's writers on twitter, at least. The latest one I read made a quite good argument for the SAAB JAS39C based on the following principles:
- significantly more fieldworthy than any F-16 due to much less FOD prone, much less need for trained personnell (pilot plus one trained and four conscript technicians vs pilot plus eight trained techs for the F-16) and significantly better STOL.
- Cheaper to operate in fuel and consumables
- much better MMI and radar, plus the latest Link 16 version for interoperability with AWACS/JSTARS etc leading to an expected need for pilot training that would be a third in hours vs the F-16
- Meteor and Iris missiles integrated, which is the best the west has currently

From my point of view, all I know is that we're somewhat short of Gripens as it is back home. But sure - lets set up war factories and build them en grosse..

Gripen could be a wonderful plane for Ukraine ! I hesitated to put it on my list, because I don't know if there are some available airframe or not ?

[Dizzyfugu]

Did not enter hardware stage so far because I found it too political at the moment.

Bad excuse! Get to it! I want to see what it will be like, i.e. what armament you'll hang under it during this war emergency. 

In the background I considered it would still be used as advanced trainer, using the German gun pod and only drop tanks. As a Nineties aircraft I'd probably give it Norm '72 camouflage with overpainted markings, but as a later aircraft I'd give it the Su-25's all-green "clover leaf" livery. Or I must buy both.   

[Pellson]

Or I must buy both.   

I'll take that as a promise.. 

[Dizzyfugu]

They are on the idea list. Kits and decals are actually there, but priority is low and the current state of the world somehow makes building them inappropriate to me, at least for now.

[NARSES2]

Can I ask a possibly silly question, but with all this talk of "new" aircraft for the Ukrainian AF I was wondering how long it would take to train Ukranian pilots and ground crew up on them ? I honestly have no idea.

[Dizzyfugu]

That's a good question - the same goes for modern battle tanks or SPGs with precision ammunition for the ground forces. I have no idea, but I think that flying a new/different aircraft as such is not so much of a problem, but rather getting used of all the different/new systems on board and how to use them properly to get the most out of the material's limited numbers. Even with "pressure fueling" I'd guess that it would take several intense weeks to be ready?

[Old Wombat]

About six months has been the number thrown around by the media (including military publications) for AFV training. This may be an exaggeration in either direction to keep the Russians from the truth but I doubt it.

However, training isn't the same as experience & they don't have time to practice many wargaming scenarios, so there's going to be a lot of lessons being learned in the field & I'd expect initial losses to be fairly high.

That being said; the Ukrainians still have experienced tank & AFV commanders & good tactics are good tactics, no matter what equipment you're using.

[Pellson]

Can I ask a possibly silly question, but with all this talk of "new" aircraft for the Ukrainian AF I was wondering how long it would take to train Ukranian pilots and ground crew up on them ? I honestly have no idea.

There's been a lot of talk about that in particular when talking about giving Ukraine F-16's. The consensus seems to be that you can train a current active MiG pilot on an F-16 to a level where he safely can fly and maneuver the aircraft in between 9 and 12 weeks, but to get him tactically proficient, it's a matter of 9-12 months. For employing advanced weapons, such as smart munitions and AIM-120, it's at least a year.

In theory, retraining an existing pilot on the SAAB JAS39C would be somewhat quicker as the MMI is more intuitive and less focus demanding. However, we're talking of saving the odd month, not like three months or so.

Training a brand new pilot will take a similar time as it does over here, i.e 6-9 years from scratch to flight leader.

[NARSES2]

but to get him tactically proficient, it's a matter of 9-12 months. For employing advanced weapons, such as smart munitions and AIM-120, it's at least a year.

Thanks, that was the figure I had buzzing around in my brain, but had no idea if it was realistic or not. And I must admit I hadn't even though about AFV's and artillery pieces etc.

Sassanids didn't have this problem. Your elite cavalry grew up on a horse and you chained your infantry to the ground 

[AeroplaneDriver]

They could take a current MiG pilot and have them safely flying an F-16 in a couple of months.  To actually employ the aircraft as a weapon...a good bit longer obviously.  About a year is a realistic number in peacetime...in wartime I'm sure things can be compressed, but I don't think anything less than 7-8 months is realistic. 

I bought a Kinetic Mirage 2000 two seater recently with the intent being a Ukrainian machine.  I'm daunted by the prospect of masking the digital camo they are fond of, so I think that will be explained in the backstory that a simpler camo is used for expediency's sake.