Centurion AA (Rapier) - Done

buzzbomb · February 14, 2023, 02:18:55 AM

So, whilst procrastinating on putting decals on a new build (AFV Club Churchill NA75 Conversion) I somehow got to thinking about what to do next.
Going through the boxes of halfies (half finished/started/destroyed/lost) I spied this
The venerable Tamiya/Academy Centurion Mk 3 kit from mid last century. Very very average kit and rather delapitated

I think the guy I got this off was thinking of doing an Aussie Cent at some stage so hacked off the guards for some reason. These had to be put back first

Then in a moment of lertness... a bit of inspiration, what about the first attempt to get the Rapier Anti aircraft Missile on a mobile mount. On an older chassis but still able to hack with the tanks. The dates of the Centurion and the Rapier development sort of align somewhat
Mock up of the turret is now underway to see if it will work. It turns out that a 1/72 Soviet AS11 Kilter Anti Ship Missile is near as dammit to a 1/35 Rapier in look and length, good enough for this stage anyway

I am thinking Armoured boxes for the missiles, pretty much the same as the Real Tracked Rapier on the M548 TLC, with earlier ground mount type tracking gear or close proximity. Probably only go for 4 missiles in ready rack though.

zenrat · February 14, 2023, 02:53:00 AM

rickshaw · February 14, 2023, 03:06:51 AM

Interesting

NARSES2 · February 14, 2023, 05:57:07 AM

I must admit my first thoughts for a Centurion AA would be a Centurion hull with a twin 40mm Bofors turret, so this to put it mildly intrigues me as I've no idea what it would look like . Really looking forward to it

And given UK MOD budget cuts I can actually see them using Tamiya tape (or a cheaper £1 shop option) to attach the missiles to their rails

Old Wombat · February 14, 2023, 06:41:47 AM

I dunno, BT, the Cent looks fairly good for the era. Maybe a bit Sheesh! $:-\$ compared to modern kits but good for its day.

Just because I needed a reference to the system, I present ...

The M548 TLC Rapier;

(prototype)

So, sort of a 1/2 to 3/4 box structure with 2 Rapiers per side.

The tracking radar doesn't look that difficult to scratch up.

The search radar (not represented here

) could be mounted on a M113/M548/another Cent hull.

Weaver · February 14, 2023, 10:37:49 AM

There was actually a scheme to put four Tigercats (land-based Seacat: identical missile) on an armoured turret on a Centurion chassis, so this would be a natural evolution of that project.

Gondor · February 14, 2023, 10:41:33 AM

Rapier started as a towed item with four missiles, the tracked version came later.

Gondor

rickshaw · February 14, 2023, 07:52:16 PM

Quote from: Old Wombat on February 14, 2023, 06:41:47 AMSo, sort of a 1/2 to 3/4 box structure with 2 Rapiers per side.

The tracking radar doesn't look that difficult to scratch up.

The search radar (not represented here ) could be mounted on a M113/M548/another Cent hull.

Actually, the Rapier mounted a search radar on the mount. It was the drum fixture between the missiles. The antenna in the middle was a transmitting dish for the control commands to the missile after launch. The Blindfire system which was often co-sited with the launchers in a towed system, was the tracking radar for use in bad weather/night time engagements. In typical British style they went about the design, arse about face and placed a search radar on the normal mounting but decided to make the system only visual engagements only.

I have an amusing story about the Australian Army's adoption of the Rapier. It was sent to Melbourne by ship and then loaded onboard a train and dispatched to Adelaide where the 16 Air Defence Regt. was stationed. The Supply battalion was advised that the top-secret shipment was on it's way. Anyway, it didn't arrive. Oh, dear, anyway, a senior WO who I knew decided to go for a walk along the railway siding beside the depot where a train had been parked for a week, where anybody could access it. Guess what he discovered? All the Rapier fire units stacked neatly in containers. Oh, dear, a huge kerfuffle resulted with MPs all over the place, police, everything. Very red faced, pointed questions were asked of the railways why no one had been advised of the train's arrival and everything. They quickly unloaded them and shuffled them into a warehouse until the Air Defence Regiment could send sufficient vehicles to pick them up.

Wardukw · February 14, 2023, 09:44:13 PM

Must be something in the water at the moment..I just started a missile armed tracked vehicle using a Leo1 chassis.
I like the Rapier system ..it looks pretty menacing with those 8 missiles pointed at the skies and I have that old as hell Tamiya Centurion kit to which is another thing I like so this build is knocking on all the right doors

Weaver · February 15, 2023, 04:08:11 AM

Quote from: rickshaw on February 14, 2023, 07:52:16 PM
Quote from: Old Wombat on February 14, 2023, 06:41:47 AMSo, sort of a 1/2 to 3/4 box structure with 2 Rapiers per side.

The tracking radar doesn't look that difficult to scratch up.

The search radar (not represented here ) could be mounted on a M113/M548/another Cent hull.

Actually, the Rapier mounted a search radar on the mount. It was the drum fixture between the missiles. The antenna in the middle was a transmitting dish for the control commands to the missile after launch. The Blindfire system which was often co-sited with the launchers in a towed system, was the tracking radar for use in bad weather/night time engagements. In typical British style they went about the design, arse about face and placed a search radar on the normal mounting but decided to make the system only visual engagements only.

Just for context, the British Army originally wanted a much more sophisticated system called PT.428, but development costs inevitably rose and it was cancelled. They then selected the US Mauler system, but that ran into technical difficulties and was cancelled too. Rapier, the "cheap & quick" backup for PT.428, now came to the fore. At the time, the UK armed forces were very concerned with rapidly reinforcing overseas bases by air (Scorpion et al date from this time too), so part of the spec was that the whole system had to be mounted on ONE Landrover+trailer combo. That's why the radar is on the launcher (the trailer) and the target tracker is a light, man-portable optical unit that can be carried in the back of the Landy. The Blindfire all-weather tracking radar was a "nice-to-have" extra that could be sent on a subsequent flight if needed after the basic system had been sen t and set up as quickly as possible.

PR19_Kit · February 15, 2023, 05:00:34 AM

Could I have seen one of those tracked Rapier thingies at RAF Brugen in the middle-late 80s?

When I visited my No. 2 daughter there (Did you know she............Oh, you've heard it before, OK.........) we went on a tour of the airfield, and amongst a few camo'd and obviously derelict Phantoms hidden in the woods there were a couple of vehicles that looked very like those tracks, but she wouldn't let me anywhere near them.

Gondor · February 15, 2023, 05:11:07 AM

Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 15, 2023, 05:00:34 AMCould I have seen one of those tracked Rapier thingies at RAF Brugen in the middle-late 80s?

When I visited my No. 2 daughter there (Did you know she............Oh, you've heard it before, OK.........) we went on a tour of the airfield, and amongst a few camo'd and obviously derelict Phantoms hidden in the woods there were a couple of vehicles that looked very like those tracks, but she wouldn't let me anywhere near them.

Yes you could have as there were regular flights duering the summer to the Outer Hebrides duering the 80's when I was there. They were going to the live fireing range on South Uist. The RAF accommodation for single people was very close to the airport so getting sleep after a night shift when the Hercules flew in/out was a slight problem at times.

Gondor

Steel Penguin · February 15, 2023, 10:19:18 AM

if you can get any shots from the BAc Filton open days in the late 70s/ early 80s they used to have one of the vehicles parked between the Babazon hanger and the BAWA club, and on the hour they used to set of a wire riding dummy, to the oohs and ahhs oh all the kids in attendance,

Weaver · February 16, 2023, 01:38:10 PM

Quote from: Steel Penguin on February 15, 2023, 10:19:18 AMif you can get any shots from the BAc Filton open days in the late 70s/ early 80s they used to have one of the vehicles parked between the Babazon hanger and the BAWA club, and on the hour they used to set of a wire riding dummy, to the oohs and ahhs oh all the kids in attendance,

I remember standing at the BAC Dynamics outdoor display at one Farnborough air show where they had an operational Rapier unit with dummy missiles, a good operator and a big TV hooked up to the sighting unit. It was notable that the operator was keeping the crosswires on the aircraft doing aerobatics displays for, I'd estimate, over 80% of the time.

PR19_Kit · February 16, 2023, 03:54:35 PM

My ex-brother-in-law (work that out....) was on a Rapier unit in the Falklands and reckoned that they could have nailed quite few more AAF aircraft if they hadn't been sited in silly positions. The AAF strikes came in round the hills below the peaks and by the time they were in sight it was very difficult to track and lock on to them.