Aircraft engines. Swapping and upgrading.

[simmie]

positioning is important for the preservation of the center of gravity, however, that does not prevent the exchanging of an inline for a radial or visa a versa.

yes , it was the Dagger not the Rapier that the hurricane was schemed for, fingers got ahead of rain a bit there.

Also the Avro Manchester was schemed as the Mk11A/B with both the Bristol Centaurus and the Napier Sabre.

[Mossie]

I would suggest that the weight of the S.6B would decrease with the fitting of undercarriage over floats, so less power would be required than the 2200hp R engines!  The Type 224 used the Goshawk at 600hp, & assuming the S.6B probably weighed in around the same & being developed around the same time, I guess you would start with something with that kind of power.  The speed of course would be reduced, but would probably be in line with it's contemparies.

If you wanted to remove any engine that didn't have significant development over the 600hp range, you could take out the Kestrel.  The Peregrine development may have been used (around the 800hp range) at a later stage, although it wasn't a well used engine.

So that narrows it down to:
Bristol Mercury
Bristol Pegasus
Bristol Perseus
Napier Dagger

Without the weights of the engines & the associated change in CofG, it's heard to tell, but the with the S.6B being designed with an inline engine, I'd be tempted to plump for the Dagger rather than the Bristol radials.

[jcf]

The R-type was developed into the Merlin and Griffon, wasn't it?

To decide on suitable candidates for re-engining, you might want a bit more data, like configuration (radial/V), and weight.

The Merlin was a separate parallell evolutionary path and at one point was an inverted V design, the R was based on the Buzzard which also formed the basis for the Griffon I which was then majorly redesigned uisng features from the Merlin to produce the Griffon II...producing the engine we all think of when we hear the name Griffon.

Cheers, Jon

[B777LR]

My version of that list:

Bristol Blehiem:-Mercury to Napier Sabre
Westland Lysander:- Mercury to Napier Sabre
Douglas DC-2:-Mercury to Napier Sabre
Shorts Sunderland:- Pegasus to Napier Sabre
Curtiss P40 Kityhawk:-Merlin to Napier Sabre
Shorts Stirling:-Hercules to Napier Sabre
Hawker Typhoon:-Sabre to Napier Sabre
Airspeed AMbassador:-Centaurus to Napier Sabre

[jcf]

My version of that list:

Bristol Blehiem:-Mercury to Napier Sabre
Westland Lysander:- Mercury to Napier Sabre
Douglas DC-2:-Mercury to Napier Sabre
Shorts Sunderland:- Pegasus to Napier Sabre
Curtiss P40 Kityhawk:-Merlin to Napier Sabre
Shorts Stirling:-Hercules to Napier Sabre
Hawker Typhoon:-Sabre to Napier Sabre
Airspeed AMbassador:-Centaurus to Napier Sabre

You may like it but the 'Erks would have hated having to deal with Sabre's on all of those aircraft.

p.s. re-engineing the already Sabre-powered Typhoon with a Sabre?  

[B777LR]

p.s. re-engineing the already Sabre-powered Typhoon with a Sabre?

             

[SinUnNombre]

That Bristol Hercules-engined Hurricane looks sweet! It kinda reminds me of the Commonwealth Boomerang in side profile.

Jon

[Mossie]

It still might have happened Wooksta. This fighter would probably have entered service mid thirties, aircraft of this vintage still were fitted with both these engines (stupid though it was!).  The aircraft itself would probably be outclassed at the beggining of war itself, along with it's engine.

The more I think about it though, the more I think the Dagger wouldn't be suited to the airframe anyway.  It was a big lump of a H-block sitting at the front of a relatively small aircraft, it just seems ungainly.  I know I discounted it, but I'm coming back to the Kestrel.  It may not have had a lot of development potential, but it might have done the job, until it could have been developed (the Peregrine being a possibility) or a replacement found.

I guess that leaves the situation with the Pegasus, Perseus or Kestrel as the main contenders then?

[kitnut617]

The more I think about it though, the more I think the Dagger wouldn't be suited to the airframe anyway.  It was a big lump of a H-block sitting at the front of a relatively small aircraft, it just seems ungainly.  I know I discounted it, but I'm coming back to the Kestrel.  

Hi Simon,

I don't think it was that big, it powered the Fairey Seafox and that's not a very big aircraft.  In any case the Dagger Hurricane was only proposed as a second line aircraft (training) to relieve pressure on the Merlin production line for the fighters.  In the end it wasn't needed.

Robert

[simmie]

I was recently flicking through my Lockheed aircraft putnum when  came accross this little snippit of info for you all

It seems that Lockheed oftered the Models 049 and 749 Constellations with the option of the following power plants:-

Wright Double Cyclone (what everybody took up)
Pratt and Whitney Double Wasp
Bristol Centaurus

Profiles probably wouldn't change that much but anyone want a  go??

[simmie]

I recently found this that might give you a few ideas

at the bottom of the page, the XP-38N.

griffon lightning

[elmayerle]

I recently found this that might give you a few ideas

at the bottom of the page, the XP-38N.

griffon lightning

There was also the study of navalized Lightnings with air-cooled radial engines.

[simmie]

yet another caual thought:-

When the RAF rejected the p-38 (mainly thanks to the mods that we requested!)

Was any consideration given to sticking a pair of Merlin in instead of the Allisons?

The same question applies to the Airacobra?

[B777LR]

RAF P-38

RAF did have a few P-39 though

[simmie]

Haveing done  spot of research on the previous idea, i have found the following:-

1st suggestion of sticking the merlin in  the mustang is credited to the Rolls Royce's chief test pilot after he ws asked to assess it in April 1942.

The P-38 underwent trial in March 1942.

The P-39 Airacobra was withdrawn from 601 Sqn March 1942.

The way I'm seeing it at the mo is that the P-38 gets Merlin 25's in Mosquito cowlings.  Merlin 75's coming later for high altitude recon work.

The P-39 I still have to check comparitive engine dimensions to see tht it will actually fit.

more ideas to come!!!