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Convair/McDD F/A-201 Kestrel

Started by Spino, April 15, 2023, 07:19:50 PM

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Spino

April 15, 2023, 07:19:50 PM
Ever since I ran across this design I have fallen in love with it, it's one of my favorite aircraft designs and a great what-if concept as well.
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It might have eliminated the need for the Harrier II with its vertical lift variant (the Convair 200) and would have also eliminated the need for the F/A-18 Hornet most likely.  Recently I found this kitbash of a Mirage and a Harrier with pieces from an F-15 that was someone's what-if attempt at making an F/A-201 model. 
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I have already 3D-printed a crude model of the aircraft myself, but I think I can do better.  I don't have a lot of extra cash to work with though, so I think I might use a Lindberg F-11 Tiger kit as a base.   I'll probably be 3D-printing the intakes, wings and canards, or cutting them from sheet plastic.  The nose is an interesting challenge too for using a Tiger as a base.

Tophe

#1
April 15, 2023, 08:04:06 PM
Very interesting, yes... :thumbsup:
[the word "realistic" hurts my heart...]

kerick

#2
April 15, 2023, 08:39:59 PM
Go for it!
" Somewhere, between half true, and completely crazy, is a rainbow of nice colours "
Tophe the Wise

perttime

#3
April 15, 2023, 09:46:14 PM
Never heard of it before.... Looks good.

For replacing F/A-18, wouldn't it need a bigger nose?

NARSES2

#4
April 16, 2023, 01:58:57 AM
Didn't someone do a resin kit of this, Anigrand ? Possibly not, but something similar which was up for the same contract ?

I agree though it's a lovely looking aeroplane.
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

PR19_Kit

#5
April 16, 2023, 02:49:02 AM
Why would it have eliminated the need for the Harrier II?

If the USMC needed a STOVL attack aircraft (for short strips it short carriers) that's what they would have needed, and the F/A-201 wasn't one.
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Spino

#6
April 16, 2023, 05:10:11 AM Last Edit: April 16, 2023, 05:12:30 AM by Spino
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 16, 2023, 02:49:02 AMWhy would it have eliminated the need for the Harrier II?

If the USMC needed a STOVL attack aircraft (for short strips it short carriers) that's what they would have needed, and the F/A-201 wasn't one.

The F/A-201 was a carrier-based development of the Convair 200, which was a STOVL aircraft.  The Convair 200 had a pair of lift engines mounted vertically behind the cockpit, and an extended rear fuselage that housed a rotating nozzle for the F401 engine, similar to the F-35B's configuration.  While it was intended to operate from Sea Control Ships as a fighter, it could have probably been adapted to the ground attack role without too much trouble.  In fact it might even have been better than the Harrier II in some respects, the plane was supposed to be capable of Mach 2 and could carry AIM-7 Sparrows in a pair of under-fuselage semi-conformal mounts like the F-14 and F-4.  The 200 was designed concurrently with the 201, seems like Convair was trying to have all bases covered in case the SCS project got canned (which it did).  Unfortunately the Navy wasn't interested in the CATOBAR F/A-201 either.

Quote from: perttime on April 15, 2023, 09:46:14 PMNever heard of it before.... Looks good.

For replacing F/A-18, wouldn't it need a bigger nose?

I don't know, it might have been just a proof-of-concept design.  It was supposed to be able to carry AIM-7s, so it might have ended up with a bigger nose than what is shown in the design studies.

Spino

#7
April 16, 2023, 09:05:38 AM
It wasn't long after the F/A-201 got cancelled that the F-20 Tigershark flew with a radar that could guide AIM-7s, so I suspect the nose wouldn't have needed to be much bigger.  Honestly I think whoever made that Harrier/Mirage kitbash would have done better to use the front end of a radar Harrier II.  I guess the F-16's radar might fit in the smaller nose of the Harrier II, but the F-16 didn't actually get a radar that offered BVR missile capability until the 1990s with the F-16A MLU and F-16C.

McColm

#8
April 17, 2023, 01:37:43 AM
Sounds like something Fantastic Plastic might have built  :thumbsup:

comrade harps

#9
April 17, 2023, 05:49:27 AM
Interesting that the refuelling probe is behind the cockpit.
Whatever.

Weaver

#10
April 17, 2023, 06:00:12 AM
Quote from: Spino on April 16, 2023, 09:05:38 AMIt wasn't long after the F/A-201 got cancelled that the F-20 Tigershark flew with a radar that could guide AIM-7s, so I suspect the nose wouldn't have needed to be much bigger.  Honestly I think whoever made that Harrier/Mirage kitbash would have done better to use the front end of a radar Harrier II.  I guess the F-16's radar might fit in the smaller nose of the Harrier II, but the F-16 didn't actually get a radar that offered BVR missile capability until the 1990s with the F-16A MLU and F-16C.

I thought F-16ADFs could use Sparrow?
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

PR19_Kit

#11
April 17, 2023, 06:06:55 AM
Quote from: comrade harps on April 17, 2023, 05:49:27 AMInteresting that the refuelling probe is behind the cockpit.


Perhaps it extended when it was being used, and then it'd be just by the pilot's right ear!  :o
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Dizzyfugu

#12
April 17, 2023, 06:24:48 AM
BTW, it's an 1:48 kitbash: https://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal16/15801-15900/gal15879-Super-Kestrel-Scott-S/00.shtm

And SPINNERS posted about a dozen years ago some pics of a CG model of this aircraft in his thread (with some good all-round views that might help): https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=18821.msg564184#msg564184

PR19_Kit

#13
April 17, 2023, 11:37:35 AM
That IS a nice looking aeroplane, what with those intakes and that MASSIVE canopy compared to the rest of it.  :thumbsup:
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Spino

#14
April 17, 2023, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: Weaver on April 17, 2023, 06:00:12 AM
Quote from: Spino on April 16, 2023, 09:05:38 AMIt wasn't long after the F/A-201 got cancelled that the F-20 Tigershark flew with a radar that could guide AIM-7s, so I suspect the nose wouldn't have needed to be much bigger.  Honestly I think whoever made that Harrier/Mirage kitbash would have done better to use the front end of a radar Harrier II.  I guess the F-16's radar might fit in the smaller nose of the Harrier II, but the F-16 didn't actually get a radar that offered BVR missile capability until the 1990s with the F-16A MLU and F-16C.

I thought F-16ADFs could use Sparrow?

Yes, but as I recall the ADF came along about the same time as the MLU, or maybe a couple of years before.  I could be wrong though.  ADF was a project to basically keep the ANG F-16A fleet relevant for a few more years I think.
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