avatar_chrisonord

Fouga magister close air support aircraft

Started by chrisonord, January 01, 2024, 09:04:43 AM

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Weaver

Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

chrisonord

Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Weaver

#17
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.

That'd work.  :thumbsup:
The other thing you could do if you've got the parts is put the night-fighter wings on it so you have 8 x 20mm cannons... :o  :wacko:

One of these decades I'm going to get around to my trilogy of "advanced" Meteor versions that Gloster are desperately trying to flog in 1954 having lost the night-fighter contract to the De Havilland Vixen. One of them is a fighter-bomber based on the Reaper, one is a night-fighter based on the NF.14 with afterburners plus very fake and vague "advanced missiles", and one is a ground-attacker consisting of an F.8 fuselage with Trent-Meteor turboprop wings and a damn great gun in a centreline pod.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

chrisonord

Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.

That'd work.  :thumbsup:
The other thing you could do if you've got the parts is put the night-fighter wings on it so you have 8 x 20mm cannons... :o  :wacko:

One of these decades I'm going to get around to my trilogy of "advanced" Meteor versions that Gloster are desperately trying to flog in 1954 having lost the night-fighter contract to the De Havilland Vixen. One of them is a fighter-bomber based on the Reaper, one is a night-fighter based on the NF.14 with afterburners plus very fake and vague "advanced missiles", and one is a ground-attacker consisting of an F.8 fuselage with Trent-Meteor turboprop wings and a damn great gun in a centreline pod.
I have been after a Trent meteor for quite some time as it would work in the scenario I have got my magisters in. The timeline would be late 60's to late 70's so the meteors would have gone through a lot of upgrades just to keep them flying. Being agile and not too fast would be perfect for the job, so I will see what I can do with my other meteors too. I have an MPM mk 8, not exactly sure what mark, the old mk3 airfix one, again not sure of mark, and a still in its film wrapper matchbox NF 14, that could do something other than hoik ejector seated pilots out of the back seat, or be a weapons trainer like my last one. I also have a French transport aircraft with guns snd four anti tank missiles on it somewhere, that can join in on the operation.
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Weaver

Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.

That'd work.  :thumbsup:
The other thing you could do if you've got the parts is put the night-fighter wings on it so you have 8 x 20mm cannons... :o  :wacko:

One of these decades I'm going to get around to my trilogy of "advanced" Meteor versions that Gloster are desperately trying to flog in 1954 having lost the night-fighter contract to the De Havilland Vixen. One of them is a fighter-bomber based on the Reaper, one is a night-fighter based on the NF.14 with afterburners plus very fake and vague "advanced missiles", and one is a ground-attacker consisting of an F.8 fuselage with Trent-Meteor turboprop wings and a damn great gun in a centreline pod.
I have been after a Trent meteor for quite some time as it would work in the scenario I have got my magisters in. The timeline would be late 60's to late 70's so the meteors would have gone through a lot of upgrades just to keep them flying. Being agile and not too fast would be perfect for the job, so I will see what I can do with my other meteors too. I have an MPM mk 8, not exactly sure what mark, the old mk3 airfix one, again not sure of mark, and a still in its film wrapper matchbox NF 14, that could do something other than hoik ejector seated pilots out of the back seat, or be a weapons trainer like my last one. I also have a French transport aircraft with guns snd four anti tank missiles on it somewhere, that can join in on the operation.

I've got a bevvy of Matchbox NF.14s too, but I've been warned that it's a pig to build due to the part breakdown. Pity, because my intention was to use the incorrect very long NF.14 nose in the kit on my "advanced" nightfighter just to troll the JMNs.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

chrisonord

Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 04:36:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.

That'd work.  :thumbsup:
The other thing you could do if you've got the parts is put the night-fighter wings on it so you have 8 x 20mm cannons... :o  :wacko:

One of these decades I'm going to get around to my trilogy of "advanced" Meteor versions that Gloster are desperately trying to flog in 1954 having lost the night-fighter contract to the De Havilland Vixen. One of them is a fighter-bomber based on the Reaper, one is a night-fighter based on the NF.14 with afterburners plus very fake and vague "advanced missiles", and one is a ground-attacker consisting of an F.8 fuselage with Trent-Meteor turboprop wings and a damn great gun in a centreline pod.
I have been after a Trent meteor for quite some time as it would work in the scenario I have got my magisters in. The timeline would be late 60's to late 70's so the meteors would have gone through a lot of upgrades just to keep them flying. Being agile and not too fast would be perfect for the job, so I will see what I can do with my other meteors too. I have an MPM mk 8, not exactly sure what mark, the old mk3 airfix one, again not sure of mark, and a still in its film wrapper matchbox NF 14, that could do something other than hoik ejector seated pilots out of the back seat, or be a weapons trainer like my last one. I also have a French transport aircraft with guns snd four anti tank missiles on it somewhere, that can join in on the operation.

I've got a bevvy of Matchbox NF.14s too, but I've been warned that it's a pig to build due to the part breakdown. Pity, because my intention was to use the incorrect very long NF.14 nose in the kit on my "advanced" nightfighter just to troll the JMNs.
The look on their faces will be more than worth the effort. DO IT!!
I suppose the NF 14 I have could havd a large drum magazine in the rear cockpit instead of a victim :wacko:  and some 30 mm cannons swipped of a Hunter or something.
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Weaver

Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:48:44 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 04:36:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.

That'd work.  :thumbsup:
The other thing you could do if you've got the parts is put the night-fighter wings on it so you have 8 x 20mm cannons... :o  :wacko:

One of these decades I'm going to get around to my trilogy of "advanced" Meteor versions that Gloster are desperately trying to flog in 1954 having lost the night-fighter contract to the De Havilland Vixen. One of them is a fighter-bomber based on the Reaper, one is a night-fighter based on the NF.14 with afterburners plus very fake and vague "advanced missiles", and one is a ground-attacker consisting of an F.8 fuselage with Trent-Meteor turboprop wings and a damn great gun in a centreline pod.
I have been after a Trent meteor for quite some time as it would work in the scenario I have got my magisters in. The timeline would be late 60's to late 70's so the meteors would have gone through a lot of upgrades just to keep them flying. Being agile and not too fast would be perfect for the job, so I will see what I can do with my other meteors too. I have an MPM mk 8, not exactly sure what mark, the old mk3 airfix one, again not sure of mark, and a still in its film wrapper matchbox NF 14, that could do something other than hoik ejector seated pilots out of the back seat, or be a weapons trainer like my last one. I also have a French transport aircraft with guns snd four anti tank missiles on it somewhere, that can join in on the operation.

I've got a bevvy of Matchbox NF.14s too, but I've been warned that it's a pig to build due to the part breakdown. Pity, because my intention was to use the incorrect very long NF.14 nose in the kit on my "advanced" nightfighter just to troll the JMNs.
The look on their faces will be more than worth the effort. DO IT!!
I suppose the NF 14 I have could havd a large drum magazine in the rear cockpit instead of a victim :wacko:  and some 30 mm cannons swipped of a Hunter or something.

Yeah, but I think that if you have a solo pilot trying to drive an early 1950s radar set _and_ fly an early jet fighter _at night_, then you're going to have a lot of Meteors living up to their name rather more precisely than you'd like, by leaving a trail of sad, smoking craters across the landscape...
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

chrisonord

Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:48:44 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 04:36:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.

That'd work.  :thumbsup:
The other thing you could do if you've got the parts is put the night-fighter wings on it so you have 8 x 20mm cannons... :o  :wacko:

One of these decades I'm going to get around to my trilogy of "advanced" Meteor versions that Gloster are desperately trying to flog in 1954 having lost the night-fighter contract to the De Havilland Vixen. One of them is a fighter-bomber based on the Reaper, one is a night-fighter based on the NF.14 with afterburners plus very fake and vague "advanced missiles", and one is a ground-attacker consisting of an F.8 fuselage with Trent-Meteor turboprop wings and a damn great gun in a centreline pod.
I have been after a Trent meteor for quite some time as it would work in the scenario I have got my magisters in. The timeline would be late 60's to late 70's so the meteors would have gone through a lot of upgrades just to keep them flying. Being agile and not too fast would be perfect for the job, so I will see what I can do with my other meteors too. I have an MPM mk 8, not exactly sure what mark, the old mk3 airfix one, again not sure of mark, and a still in its film wrapper matchbox NF 14, that could do something other than hoik ejector seated pilots out of the back seat, or be a weapons trainer like my last one. I also have a French transport aircraft with guns snd four anti tank missiles on it somewhere, that can join in on the operation.

I've got a bevvy of Matchbox NF.14s too, but I've been warned that it's a pig to build due to the part breakdown. Pity, because my intention was to use the incorrect very long NF.14 nose in the kit on my "advanced" nightfighter just to troll the JMNs.
The look on their faces will be more than worth the effort. DO IT!!
I suppose the NF 14 I have could havd a large drum magazine in the rear cockpit instead of a victim :wacko:  and some 30 mm cannons swipped of a Hunter or something.

Yeah, but I think that if you have a solo pilot trying to drive an early 1950s radar set _and_ fly an early jet fighter _at night_, then you're going to have a lot of Meteors living up to their name rather more precisely than you'd like, by leaving a trail of sad, smoking craters across the landscape...
The meteors won't be doing any night fighting though, they will be in Africa, defending Uranium mines from marauding insergents, so daytime use only.
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Weaver

Quote from: chrisonord on January 03, 2024, 02:11:12 AM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:48:44 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 04:36:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.

That'd work.  :thumbsup:
The other thing you could do if you've got the parts is put the night-fighter wings on it so you have 8 x 20mm cannons... :o  :wacko:

One of these decades I'm going to get around to my trilogy of "advanced" Meteor versions that Gloster are desperately trying to flog in 1954 having lost the night-fighter contract to the De Havilland Vixen. One of them is a fighter-bomber based on the Reaper, one is a night-fighter based on the NF.14 with afterburners plus very fake and vague "advanced missiles", and one is a ground-attacker consisting of an F.8 fuselage with Trent-Meteor turboprop wings and a damn great gun in a centreline pod.
I have been after a Trent meteor for quite some time as it would work in the scenario I have got my magisters in. The timeline would be late 60's to late 70's so the meteors would have gone through a lot of upgrades just to keep them flying. Being agile and not too fast would be perfect for the job, so I will see what I can do with my other meteors too. I have an MPM mk 8, not exactly sure what mark, the old mk3 airfix one, again not sure of mark, and a still in its film wrapper matchbox NF 14, that could do something other than hoik ejector seated pilots out of the back seat, or be a weapons trainer like my last one. I also have a French transport aircraft with guns snd four anti tank missiles on it somewhere, that can join in on the operation.

I've got a bevvy of Matchbox NF.14s too, but I've been warned that it's a pig to build due to the part breakdown. Pity, because my intention was to use the incorrect very long NF.14 nose in the kit on my "advanced" nightfighter just to troll the JMNs.
The look on their faces will be more than worth the effort. DO IT!!
I suppose the NF 14 I have could havd a large drum magazine in the rear cockpit instead of a victim :wacko:  and some 30 mm cannons swipped of a Hunter or something.

Yeah, but I think that if you have a solo pilot trying to drive an early 1950s radar set _and_ fly an early jet fighter _at night_, then you're going to have a lot of Meteors living up to their name rather more precisely than you'd like, by leaving a trail of sad, smoking craters across the landscape...
The meteors won't be doing any night fighting though, they will be in Africa, defending Uranium mines from marauding insergents, so daytime use only.

In that case you could go for another 1950s thing that never got into service. Replace the radar with guns that can be depressed to fire downwards at an angle. The advantage is that you can strafe without diving, so you can spray a linear strip of ground rather than a oval spot. They wouldn't have to go as far off-axis as the guns intended for air-to-air work, so a bit of automatic elevator trim (or a tiny T-tail on top of the fin) should fine for counteracting the recoil. A more sophisticated way to use them is to have the guns deflect automatically in proportion to the aircraft's speed and height, thus keeping the guns trained on a fixed target for longer than would be possible with a dive attack. This MO does require some sort of computer though (maybe in the back seat?).

The Soviets actually put into service a range of 23mm gun pods with depressable/traversable guns that could be mounted facing forwards or backwards, so the idea is practical in principle. Depression angles can be up to 45 degrees. Pods are:
SPPU-22 (23mm GSh-23 gun, 0-30 deg depression only)
SPPU-6 (23mm GSh-6-23 Gatling gun, 0-45 deg depression, -45/+45 deg traverse)
SPPU-687 (30mm GSh-301 gun, 0-30 deg depression, -15/+15 deg traverse)
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

chrisonord

Quote from: Weaver on January 03, 2024, 03:03:13 AM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 03, 2024, 02:11:12 AM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:48:44 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 04:36:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.

That'd work.  :thumbsup:
The other thing you could do if you've got the parts is put the night-fighter wings on it so you have 8 x 20mm cannons... :o  :wacko:

One of these decades I'm going to get around to my trilogy of "advanced" Meteor versions that Gloster are desperately trying to flog in 1954 having lost the night-fighter contract to the De Havilland Vixen. One of them is a fighter-bomber based on the Reaper, one is a night-fighter based on the NF.14 with afterburners plus very fake and vague "advanced missiles", and one is a ground-attacker consisting of an F.8 fuselage with Trent-Meteor turboprop wings and a damn great gun in a centreline pod.
I have been after a Trent meteor for quite some time as it would work in the scenario I have got my magisters in. The timeline would be late 60's to late 70's so the meteors would have gone through a lot of upgrades just to keep them flying. Being agile and not too fast would be perfect for the job, so I will see what I can do with my other meteors too. I have an MPM mk 8, not exactly sure what mark, the old mk3 airfix one, again not sure of mark, and a still in its film wrapper matchbox NF 14, that could do something other than hoik ejector seated pilots out of the back seat, or be a weapons trainer like my last one. I also have a French transport aircraft with guns snd four anti tank missiles on it somewhere, that can join in on the operation.

I've got a bevvy of Matchbox NF.14s too, but I've been warned that it's a pig to build due to the part breakdown. Pity, because my intention was to use the incorrect very long NF.14 nose in the kit on my "advanced" nightfighter just to troll the JMNs.
The look on their faces will be more than worth the effort. DO IT!!
I suppose the NF 14 I have could havd a large drum magazine in the rear cockpit instead of a victim :wacko:  and some 30 mm cannons swipped of a Hunter or something.

Yeah, but I think that if you have a solo pilot trying to drive an early 1950s radar set _and_ fly an early jet fighter _at night_, then you're going to have a lot of Meteors living up to their name rather more precisely than you'd like, by leaving a trail of sad, smoking craters across the landscape...
The meteors won't be doing any night fighting though, they will be in Africa, defending Uranium mines from marauding insergents, so daytime use only.

In that case you could go for another 1950s thing that never got into service. Replace the radar with guns that can be depressed to fire downwards at an angle. The advantage is that you can strafe without diving, so you can spray a linear strip of ground rather than a oval spot. They wouldn't have to go as far off-axis as the guns intended for air-to-air work, so a bit of automatic elevator trim (or a tiny T-tail on top of the fin) should fine for counteracting the recoil. A more sophisticated way to use them is to have the guns deflect automatically in proportion to the aircraft's speed and height, thus keeping the guns trained on a fixed target for longer than would be possible with a dive attack. This MO does require some sort of computer though (maybe in the back seat?).

The Soviets actually put into service a range of 23mm gun pods with depressable/traversable guns that could be mounted facing forwards or backwards, so the idea is practical in principle. Depression angles can be up to 45 degrees. Pods are:
SPPU-22 (23mm GSh-23 gun, 0-30 deg depression only)
SPPU-6 (23mm GSh-6-23 Gatling gun, 0-45 deg depression, -45/+45 deg traverse)
SPPU-687 (30mm GSh-301 gun, 0-30 deg depression, -15/+15 deg traverse)
I have some of those pods in my soviet weapons dump/stash, I will look to see if they are timeline compatible, if not, then angled guns in the nose it is. One of the twin barrelled pods could go on the centreline if they work out.
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Weaver

#25
Quote from: chrisonord on January 03, 2024, 03:22:01 AM
Quote from: Weaver on January 03, 2024, 03:03:13 AM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 03, 2024, 02:11:12 AM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:48:44 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 04:36:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.

That'd work.  :thumbsup:
The other thing you could do if you've got the parts is put the night-fighter wings on it so you have 8 x 20mm cannons... :o  :wacko:

One of these decades I'm going to get around to my trilogy of "advanced" Meteor versions that Gloster are desperately trying to flog in 1954 having lost the night-fighter contract to the De Havilland Vixen. One of them is a fighter-bomber based on the Reaper, one is a night-fighter based on the NF.14 with afterburners plus very fake and vague "advanced missiles", and one is a ground-attacker consisting of an F.8 fuselage with Trent-Meteor turboprop wings and a damn great gun in a centreline pod.
I have been after a Trent meteor for quite some time as it would work in the scenario I have got my magisters in. The timeline would be late 60's to late 70's so the meteors would have gone through a lot of upgrades just to keep them flying. Being agile and not too fast would be perfect for the job, so I will see what I can do with my other meteors too. I have an MPM mk 8, not exactly sure what mark, the old mk3 airfix one, again not sure of mark, and a still in its film wrapper matchbox NF 14, that could do something other than hoik ejector seated pilots out of the back seat, or be a weapons trainer like my last one. I also have a French transport aircraft with guns snd four anti tank missiles on it somewhere, that can join in on the operation.

I've got a bevvy of Matchbox NF.14s too, but I've been warned that it's a pig to build due to the part breakdown. Pity, because my intention was to use the incorrect very long NF.14 nose in the kit on my "advanced" nightfighter just to troll the JMNs.
The look on their faces will be more than worth the effort. DO IT!!
I suppose the NF 14 I have could havd a large drum magazine in the rear cockpit instead of a victim :wacko:  and some 30 mm cannons swipped of a Hunter or something.

Yeah, but I think that if you have a solo pilot trying to drive an early 1950s radar set _and_ fly an early jet fighter _at night_, then you're going to have a lot of Meteors living up to their name rather more precisely than you'd like, by leaving a trail of sad, smoking craters across the landscape...
The meteors won't be doing any night fighting though, they will be in Africa, defending Uranium mines from marauding insergents, so daytime use only.

In that case you could go for another 1950s thing that never got into service. Replace the radar with guns that can be depressed to fire downwards at an angle. The advantage is that you can strafe without diving, so you can spray a linear strip of ground rather than a oval spot. They wouldn't have to go as far off-axis as the guns intended for air-to-air work, so a bit of automatic elevator trim (or a tiny T-tail on top of the fin) should fine for counteracting the recoil. A more sophisticated way to use them is to have the guns deflect automatically in proportion to the aircraft's speed and height, thus keeping the guns trained on a fixed target for longer than would be possible with a dive attack. This MO does require some sort of computer though (maybe in the back seat?).

The Soviets actually put into service a range of 23mm gun pods with depressable/traversable guns that could be mounted facing forwards or backwards, so the idea is practical in principle. Depression angles can be up to 45 degrees. Pods are:
SPPU-22 (23mm GSh-23 gun, 0-30 deg depression only)
SPPU-6 (23mm GSh-6-23 Gatling gun, 0-45 deg depression, -45/+45 deg traverse)
SPPU-687 (30mm GSh-301 gun, 0-30 deg depression, -15/+15 deg traverse)
I have some of those pods in my soviet weapons dump/stash, I will look to see if they are timeline compatible, if not, then angled guns in the nose it is. One of the twin barrelled pods could go on the centreline if they work out.

Well if you go for a podded gun then you could replace the radar with an air-to-ground sensor like a FLIR turret or, if it's an improvised system, just a thumping great TV camera with high magnification. It wouldn't take much to adapt a GEC Heli Tele system for fixed-wing use, and that was a military/police system so presumably not very classified or export-restricted.

Heli-tele article with pics: https://www.royalsignalsmuseum.co.uk/on-this-day-7th-april/

Air-Graphics Models do a 1/72nd Heli-Tele for £6.50: https://air-graphics.uk/shop/ols/products/ac-495-heli-tele-camera-ball
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

chrisonord

Quote from: Weaver on January 03, 2024, 03:37:15 AM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 03, 2024, 03:22:01 AM
Quote from: Weaver on January 03, 2024, 03:03:13 AM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 03, 2024, 02:11:12 AM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:48:44 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 04:36:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on January 02, 2024, 01:04:58 PMI waa going to do my veeeery old airfix meteor as a CAS aircraft, and suitably up arm it too, and maybe use a heaped table spoon if wifferite mixed in with it conception. But its canopy has gone walkies, so it will have to wait until J can find it. :unsure:

Well there's a pattern to follow in the Gloster Reaper prototype: replace the belly tank with tip tanks and you have space for a third set of rocket rails under the fuselage.
Sounds like a good plan that does H, I was thinking of a fixed amament of canons in the nose, and possibly an under fuselage gondola with a heavier gun with its own ammo supply, and 2 pairs of SUU-30 dispensers on the wings, and some tip tanks.

That'd work.  :thumbsup:
The other thing you could do if you've got the parts is put the night-fighter wings on it so you have 8 x 20mm cannons... :o  :wacko:

One of these decades I'm going to get around to my trilogy of "advanced" Meteor versions that Gloster are desperately trying to flog in 1954 having lost the night-fighter contract to the De Havilland Vixen. One of them is a fighter-bomber based on the Reaper, one is a night-fighter based on the NF.14 with afterburners plus very fake and vague "advanced missiles", and one is a ground-attacker consisting of an F.8 fuselage with Trent-Meteor turboprop wings and a damn great gun in a centreline pod.
I have been after a Trent meteor for quite some time as it would work in the scenario I have got my magisters in. The timeline would be late 60's to late 70's so the meteors would have gone through a lot of upgrades just to keep them flying. Being agile and not too fast would be perfect for the job, so I will see what I can do with my other meteors too. I have an MPM mk 8, not exactly sure what mark, the old mk3 airfix one, again not sure of mark, and a still in its film wrapper matchbox NF 14, that could do something other than hoik ejector seated pilots out of the back seat, or be a weapons trainer like my last one. I also have a French transport aircraft with guns snd four anti tank missiles on it somewhere, that can join in on the operation.

I've got a bevvy of Matchbox NF.14s too, but I've been warned that it's a pig to build due to the part breakdown. Pity, because my intention was to use the incorrect very long NF.14 nose in the kit on my "advanced" nightfighter just to troll the JMNs.
The look on their faces will be more than worth the effort. DO IT!!
I suppose the NF 14 I have could havd a large drum magazine in the rear cockpit instead of a victim :wacko:  and some 30 mm cannons swipped of a Hunter or something.

Yeah, but I think that if you have a solo pilot trying to drive an early 1950s radar set _and_ fly an early jet fighter _at night_, then you're going to have a lot of Meteors living up to their name rather more precisely than you'd like, by leaving a trail of sad, smoking craters across the landscape...
The meteors won't be doing any night fighting though, they will be in Africa, defending Uranium mines from marauding insergents, so daytime use only.

In that case you could go for another 1950s thing that never got into service. Replace the radar with guns that can be depressed to fire downwards at an angle. The advantage is that you can strafe without diving, so you can spray a linear strip of ground rather than a oval spot. They wouldn't have to go as far off-axis as the guns intended for air-to-air work, so a bit of automatic elevator trim (or a tiny T-tail on top of the fin) should fine for counteracting the recoil. A more sophisticated way to use them is to have the guns deflect automatically in proportion to the aircraft's speed and height, thus keeping the guns trained on a fixed target for longer than would be possible with a dive attack. This MO does require some sort of computer though (maybe in the back seat?).

The Soviets actually put into service a range of 23mm gun pods with depressable/traversable guns that could be mounted facing forwards or backwards, so the idea is practical in principle. Depression angles can be up to 45 degrees. Pods are:
SPPU-22 (23mm GSh-23 gun, 0-30 deg depression only)
SPPU-6 (23mm GSh-6-23 Gatling gun, 0-45 deg depression, -45/+45 deg traverse)
SPPU-687 (30mm GSh-301 gun, 0-30 deg depression, -15/+15 deg traverse)
I have some of those pods in my soviet weapons dump/stash, I will look to see if they are timeline compatible, if not, then angled guns in the nose it is. One of the twin barrelled pods could go on the centreline if they work out.

Well if you go for a podded gun then you could replace the radar with an air-to-ground sensor like a FLIR turret or, if it's an improvised system, just a thumping great TV camera with high magnification. It wouldn't take much to adapt a GEC Heli-Teli system for fixed-wing use, and that was a military/police system so presumably not very classified or export-restricted.

Heli-tele article with pics: https://www.royalsignalsmuseum.co.uk/on-this-day-7th-april/
But would they be around in the late 60's? Also they wouldn't really need hi tec electronics for straffing ground targets. Just basic and remotely accurate hails of lead are all thay's needed .
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

PR19_Kit

Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 04:36:57 PMI've got a bevvy of Matchbox NF.14s too, but I've been warned that it's a pig to build due to the part breakdown. Pity, because my intention was to use the incorrect very long NF.14 nose in the kit on my "advanced" nightfighter just to troll the JMNs.


It's not an impossible build once you get used to it, but lay in some good putty and wet-and-dry paper beforehand.

I've done five of them now (with longer wings of course......) and can almost do it with my eyes shut.  ;D

Actually that's six, one had NORMAL wings!  :o
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Weaver

Quote from: PR19_Kit on January 03, 2024, 04:59:47 AM
Quote from: Weaver on January 02, 2024, 04:36:57 PMI've got a bevvy of Matchbox NF.14s too, but I've been warned that it's a pig to build due to the part breakdown. Pity, because my intention was to use the incorrect very long NF.14 nose in the kit on my "advanced" nightfighter just to troll the JMNs.


It's not an impossible build once you get used to it, but lay in some good putty and wet-and-dry paper beforehand.

I've done five of them now (with longer wings of course......) and can almost do it with my eyes shut.  ;D

Actually that's six, one had NORMAL wings!  :o

I've got a Special Hobby NF.14 for the job now. That's preferable because the parts breakdown means I can swap the wings for the spare clipped F.8 wings in the MPM Trent-Meteor box that don't have the guns and are more compatible with tip rails  :mellow:  :thumbsup: .
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

chrisonord

I have built one matchbox NF14, and from what I can remember, it wasn't that bad a build, I did get a correct nose for it from Colin if I remember correctly. It is a training aircraft, for the firestreak missile.
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!