In a time warp?

[Dizzyfugu]

Amen!  I have building for 40+years, I have the money to buy expensive complicated kits, photo-etch details, resin aftermarket bits, but I choose not to.  Give me a 1970's Matchbox kit off the bargain table over a $100+ kit any day.   

I find my enthusiasm wanes after too much time with any build.- give or take 20 hours perhaps.

I was accused of being "old school" on another forum when I professed my interest in simpler modelling, but I have no issue with that.  The market does seem to be chasing the expensive, complicated kits.         

Similar here. Model kit prices have reached ridiculous levels for what you get (after all, it's a bit of plastic!), and I am less and less willing to pay that when the value I get stand in no sane ratio to the costs. I do not want of need PE parts - actually, simple IP can yield very good results (check the late HUMA kits, they are amazing!) if required, but I am also quite happy with a Matchbox-ish kit, as I rather improve that on my own (or slash it up and glue it together upside down...  ). IMHO it's not a sound development to strive for higher end consumer prices, less and less people will be willing to support this.

[kitbasher]

Ya know, this is a hobby and it's supposed to be fun.  I'm loathe to shell out lotsa notes on a kit unless I reckon it's value for money and I fancy making use of lots of the parts on a detailed OOB build.

Equally, a simple kit that may need a bit of scratch building to improve details is just as much fun.

Was chatting with Narses last year about the recent Airfix and Kopro Tempests.  They look lovely kits but I adore the Matchbox kit.  Built three (a II, a VI and converted one into a V) and enjoyed every minute.

Some kits are dogs and best avoided (even for chopping up).  Others are middling and great fun.  Others are wonderkits that can come at a premium (and even then there's the temptation of adding expensive after-market stuff to them) and make wonderful models - although some if them may be overly complicated dogs.  And there are those that frankly have some unnecessary 'extras' (small etched brass fret, 3D decals) that may be desirable but not essential but bump up the price.

We make our choices and we should enjoy builds whatever the kit.  Even if the build is at times infuriating!

[The Rat]

The problems, alleged problems, and confusing decisions, in the model manufacturing world, are legion. But the end result is the same; I don't think the young'uns these days are getting into modeling, and huge parts counts and prices are a major contributor. Yes, I know there is competition from video games and 'easy' entertainment, but we need more products aimed at 7 and 8 year-olds, which is the age I got into it. Gawd'elp us, but Starfix was on the right track with inaccuracy, which kids don't even know about, cheap prices, which parents care about, and ease of assembly, which makes starting out more enjoyable. Can you imagine the horror of walking into a hobby store and seeing the Border Models Lancaster proudly displayed at the door, by a misguided owner, and a price tag of almost $1,200 Canadian?! You'll be glad the door hasn't closed yet, makes a fast exit easier.

And for the 'serious' modeler, whatever the hell that is, why bother including a crap-ton of stuff that will probably be covered instantly by a resin and/or etched brass garage industry? If they're 'serious', they can buy that stuff, or scratch build parts. You know, like we used to do back in the 1960s?

I wonder sometimes if this is partly due to the switch to CAD/CAM. From what I've seen, it encourages an approach of making up a complex object from multiple simple ones instead of drawing the complex one all of a piece, and once you've got that collection of simple sub-components, it must be very tempting to just put them on the sprue instead of trying to figure out how many of them you can 'merge' into one whilst still keeping the end result mouldable.

In other words, kits aren't more complex and expensive because they should be, but because they can be. And that isn't necessarily good.

But I hate talking about money, my mind almost switches right off when I see a $ sign. If I can't afford it, or can't justify it, I reach into the spares bin, of which I have several. And I do NOT consider myself a 'serious' modeler, just some old fart who likes to have fun.

[/rant]

[Weaver]

And I'm inclined to go with Beermonster58's thoughts on loads of internal detail which is totally invisible once the model's built, the Airfix Shackleton being a classic case. There's LOADS of parts in there, that take considerable work to assemble, NONE of which can be seen afterwards! Madness. They should try selling it in two versions, one with all  the internal detail for those who think 'But I know it 's in there' and a simpler version for those who just want the airframe itself, as Eduard do.

Maybe even a few extra bits to let you display it with one half of the fuselage missing, i.e. something to hold the 'invisible' side's wings and tailplane securely in the right place.

[kitbasher]

I'm with Dave the Rat.

[buzzbomb]

Great discussion. From my point of view, at a previous time in my modelling life, I have embraced the upward spiral in parts count in the hunt for more detail. Now I am totally over that phase. Really like the subjects the plethora of manufacturers come out with today,  that too comes with the probable inclusion of more parts than there really needs to be to get the same build result.
My current mantra is

I am after a scale model, not a scale replica.

Manufacturers/Designers, If you can combine components into a single piece, please do, assembling an Armoured Car suspension with all the parts of the real thing is really, really not required.

[Captain Canada]

I thought by mentioning Time Warp you were trying to summon Terry back to the forum !

But yes, some of these things are getting out of hand. Like 4 pieces to make the box for the landing gear ? I want one piece and a sturdy fit, please.

[The Wooksta!]

Revell's "modern" 1/72 Me 262 dates from 1997, nearly 30 years old!

But yes, there's way too many parts in some kits.  Eduard seems determined to break things down as far as they can simply to show off. A Spitfire wheel in 72nd does not need to be in four pieces!
Their policy of a generic sprue for everything and a dedicated variant sprue is good if you want spares, but although welcome, by and large these just fill spares boxes with bits you can't really use.  I mean, alternate Spitfire wing root bits and tailplanes (that are geared to go with Eduard and hard to fit to other manufacturers kits) - how many do I really need before it just takes up space?
AZ/KPM are just as guilty, although they tend to give extra wings or fuselages, or both in the case of their Heinkel He 162s.

[kerick]

This is why I whiff. Old cheap kits work just fine. Or better yet, a big ol' box of parts to bash together. I was so jealous when my friend got to a show before me and I met him walking out with a big box of someone's junk. Missed it by that much! Of course I've begged several pieces from that box since then.

[jcf]

I wonder sometimes if this is partly due to the switch to CAD/CAM. From what I've seen, it encourages an approach of making up a complex object from multiple simple ones instead of drawing the complex one all of a piece, and once you've got that collection of simple sub-components, it must be very tempting to just put them on the sprue instead of trying to figure out how many of them you can 'merge' into one whilst still keeping the end result mouldable.

One of the basics of old school scratchbuilding is to break a complex item down into the major solids
that make up the shape and proceed from there. CAD modelling makes this easy and the advantage
of CAD is that you can combine all of those separate elements into a single "shape" and "trim" away
what's not needed. This is common in 3D-printing, you can model the separate bits, put them together
and have it print the aggregate assembly rather than the individual elements. This can also be done
when designing a kit tool, but obviously to a lesser extent due to the realities of injection moulding.

Frankly, IMHO, just dumping all of the multiple separate parts out to be moulded is the lazy way of
designing a kit.

Monogram was known for its limited piece cockpits, which I always found to be more than satisfactory.
I remember yonks ago that someone produced a "detailed" resin replacement cockpit for one of the
1/48th scale jets, the exact one escapes my recollection, but once assembled, painted etc. and installed
in the model you couldn't really see any obvious difference from the original kit cockpit.

[Rick Lowe]

I remember the Dragon M3 half track, 4 similar parts for the front end:

with winch PTO hole and a hole for the PE grille flaps.
ditto but with plastic flaps moulded in place.
without winch PTO hole, and a hole for the PE flaps
ditto with the plastic flaps in place.

My immediate thought was 'WTF?! One piece with a knockout hole for the PTO, a hole for the grille flaps and either plastic or PE for the flaps would have been more than enough!'

That sort of thing, and the price tag ($100 Kiwibucks) was more than enough of a deal-breaker.

[NARSES2]

When it comes to extras for kits I'm quite happy to buy bits and pieces that make my life easier, especially given medical issues, like canopy masks, single piece resin wheels, decent resin exhausts etc and when it comes to prices then if I'm comfortable with them that's ok for me and I don't expect others to necessarily go down that path. . I don't comment on others peoples views on costs whether that be the fact that items are cheap or too expensive, it's their money, their choice.

I sometimes wonder if some people almost adopt a "Spartan" attitude when it comes to the complexity of kits and adopt that spectrum of the hobby which is shall we say at the basic end, almost as a badge of honour ?

It's a broad spectrum and if your comfortable with what your doing, then that is absolutely fine by me 

I think we've gone a long way off of what was the point of Kit's original question which was basically a question of why have Xtrakit produced a sub-assembly in numerous parts, rather than just a couple. My view ? They couldn't produce it in less, given their technology ?

[jcf]

When it comes to extras for kits I'm quite happy to buy bits and pieces that make my life easier, especially given medical issues, like canopy masks, single piece resin wheels, decent resin exhausts etc and when it comes to prices then if I'm comfortable with them that's ok for me and I don't expect others to necessarily go down that path. . I don't comment on others peoples views on costs whether that be the fact that items are cheap or too expensive, it's their money, their choice.

I sometimes wonder if some people almost adopt a "Spartan" attitude when it comes to the complexity of kits and adopt that spectrum of the hobby which is shall we say at the basic end, almost as a badge of honour ?

It's a broad spectrum and if your comfortable with what your doing, then that is absolutely fine by me 

I think we've gone a long way off of what was the point of Kit's original question which was basically a question of why have Xtrakit produced a sub-assembly in numerous parts, rather than just a couple. My view ? They couldn't produce it in less, given their technology ?

Or a badge of superiority, based on some I've come across on FB.

[Wardukw]

One thing I do love about these high parts count kits are the left over parts.
My  Hobbyboss GCT-155 on the T-72 hull is brilliant..there's like 64 parts you don't use which includes a full set of T-72 road wheels 😉
Dragon by far are or were the masters of this fine art..the amount of extra parts in most of their kits was great for the parts boxes and I'd have to give alot of thanks to Dragon for that.
Without all the extra bits it would make wiffy building a damn site more difficult .
Dragon had this way of building a new version of say a 251 half track ..but you needed only 4 parts of this one sprue which contains 30 other parts..Dragon just threw in the entire frame ..I got so many extra bits from their 251..Panzer IV and Tiger kits is scarey..so many extra Tiger parts in fact I've built nearly a complete Tiger 1 from spares alone .
Now here Dragon kits have stupid prices and it makes far more sense to just buy a cheap small parts count kit instead 😀
Which I have zero issues with either way because there's times when I don't want to spend a week just building a OTB kits with thousands of parts..as you guys have said ..this is a hobby and ment to be fun and small parts counts kits really do keep the enjoyment there for certain 😀

[zenrat]

Pity those armour builders who don't whiff.  They get left with all those spare parts and all they can use them on is another build of the same vehicle.