Fairey Delta 2 radar fit.

chrisonord · February 10, 2024, 01:35:45 PM

I am wanting to do another FD2 fighter, and arm it with firestreak missiles, and be in service during the 1960's. Would the airframe/ nose be able to house a suitable and available radar, without changing the shape of it. Cheers.

Weaver · February 10, 2024, 03:01:26 PM

I'd have thought not, to be honest. Firestreak required a radar to point it's seeker at the target (it wasn't independent like Sidewinder), and probably the smallest compatible one was the AI.23 AIRPASS on the Lightning. There was talk of fitting AI.23 to a Gnat Mk.2, which would presumably have used a smaller diameter aerial, but that still involved a fatter nose with a conical radome on a reprofiled front fuselage.

The FD.2 would need something like a Mirage III front fuselage to hold a suitable radar, which, if it involved losing the droop nose feature in favour of the Mirage's better forward+downward view angle, would be no bad thing. If you wanted the keep the FD.2's body-of-rotation nose shape, then you'd probably be looking at a parallel or near-parallel section tube ahead of the cockpit, with a conical radome on the front of that.

kitbasher · February 11, 2024, 01:16:25 AM

Akin to this (by Dizzyfugu): https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=49648.0?

chrisonord · February 11, 2024, 01:34:40 AM

Hi planes did/do alternative noses for mirage III's as I have used several different ones on somemof my Honduras builds, I will have a look and see if he is still doing them. Cheers.

Gondor · February 11, 2024, 02:53:29 AM

Quote from: kitbasher on February 11, 2024, 01:16:25 AMAkin to this (by Dizzyfugu): https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=49648.0?

That's a camera fit, not a radar. I do see where you are comming from though.

Gondor

chrisonord · February 11, 2024, 04:08:43 AM

Quote from: Gondor on February 11, 2024, 02:53:29 AM
Quote from: kitbasher on February 11, 2024, 01:16:25 AMAkin to this (by Dizzyfugu): https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=49648.0?

That's a camera fit, not a radar. I do see where you are comming from though.

Gondor

I have a kit of the mirage III with the camera nose in the stash, nit 100% sure of manufacturer, but it could be an AML kit.

rickshaw · February 12, 2024, 03:31:12 AM

I created two versions of the Fairey Delta II in Israeli service. The single seater was equipped with a radar and Redtop missiles. The original nose was too narrow so I replaced it with a Mirage III nose and cockpit. I did the same for the two seater.

chrisonord · February 12, 2024, 03:45:17 AM

Quote from: rickshaw on February 12, 2024, 03:31:12 AMI created two versions of the Fairey Delta II in Israeli service. The single seater was equipped with a radar and Redtop missiles. The original nose was too narrow so I replaced it with a Mirage III nose and cockpit. I did the same for the two seater.

I remember seeing this now, the nose and cockpit changes the aircrafts appearance substantially. I have ordered 2 different noses from hiplanes, and I will see which one suits it the most, and also fits the best. I don't want to change too much of the original aircraft, as it is going to be a rushed into stop gap production, and in service until the lightning comes on line.

Weaver · February 12, 2024, 04:45:45 AM

This is what Fairey were looking at for the smallest proposed "production" Delta fighter, the ER.103.

Note that it was NOT just an FD.2 with radar and wingtip missiles though: the whole thing was substantially scaled up with a (never built) RB.122 engine that was bgger and more powerful than an Avon. Even then, I'not convinced by the small scanner it shows. I suspect that this was based on the EKCO ranging radar as seen on the Swift F Mk.7, because the the blunt radome looks like it's straight off the Swift, but it's totally unsuitable for a supersonic aircraft.

Weaver · February 12, 2024, 04:58:21 AM

Here's the FD2 overlaid onto the Mirage III. As you can see, the Mirage's nose is substantially fatter, and the FD2's cockpit and intakes are much further back. The wing planform is near identical in shape and size. Note that the Mirage fuselage is actually slab-sided in the vicinity of the intakes and subtly swells outwards forward of them in order to get a circular radar bulkhead.

Weaver · February 12, 2024, 05:13:02 AM

CammNut did a similar conversion to Rickshaw's but he used a Draken nose and a Lightning canopy: https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=49119.0

chrisonord · February 12, 2024, 05:34:28 AM

Quote from: Weaver on February 12, 2024, 05:13:02 AMCammNut did a similar conversion to Rickshaw's but he used a Draken nose and a Lightning canopy: https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=49119.0

The Draken nose version of Cammnuts does look right, but was there a radar in there? It looks like a lot of the original nose will have to go, looking at that overlay, just to make the new nose line up properly. I shall be dusting off the vernier calipers for that job.

Weaver · February 12, 2024, 07:54:01 AM

Quote from: chrisonord on February 12, 2024, 05:34:28 AMThe Draken nose version of Cammnuts does look right, but was there a radar in there? It looks like a lot of th original nose will have to go, looking at that overlay, just ro make the new nose line up properly. I shall be dusting off the vernier calipers for that job.

Oh yes: most Drakens had radar. They even offered AI.23 as an export option.

chrisonord · February 12, 2024, 08:04:41 AM

I don't think I have a spare Draken nose to graft on, as the mirage ones are quite a bit wider now I have looked at it it on my laptop, and would need some serious work to get right. I will measure one of my built ones and see what I can come up with.

The Wooksta! · February 12, 2024, 09:10:44 AM

I swerved the whole issue at the back story stage (albeit with a finished model...) by having mine be both fighter (back end) and research (nose section), in a fighter scheme as a museum exhibit.

I'm now wondering if a Gnat front end could be grafted in for a supersonic trainer?