Mirage 2000

[Geoff_B]

Renamed the title for you as requested

As for SEAD (Supression of Enemy Air Defences) or Wild Weasel why not go with the RAF's ALARM missile as its part of the Matra/MBDA missile family now. Its alot smaller and easier to handle than HARM so the belly pylons can be used. For a bigger kick the AS-37 Armat/Martel can used as this is supposed to be a anti-radiation missile that locks on to Enemy Radar emissions.

Cheers

Geoff B B)  

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Hi Yannick,

"WILD WEASEL" is normally associated with the U.S. Air Force missions to suppress enemy air defences also known as SEAD.  There was another similar mission performed by U.S. Navy aircraft called "IRON HAND" using specially modified A-6 Intruder and A-4 Skyhawk aircraft to carry and launch the AGM-78 Standard ARM (STARM) (A-6) and the AGM-45 Shrike anti-radar missiles (A-4 and A-6).  

To me the name "WILD WEASEL" makes me to think of an animal that likes to party while the name "IRON HAND" gives me the perception of something or someone that has the ability to control a situation or create an insurmountable obstacle.  (Now how do you say "IRON HAND" in the french language?)

I agree with Thorvic on the use of the AS-37 Martel ARM, it is a large and very effective weapon similar in function to the AGM-78 and AGM-45.  I recall seeing several images of the ARM Martel mounted on a Mirage IIIE and thought it looked quite menacing.  Granted, it is a large weapon and would take up a lot of space while the use of the ALARM missiles would allow you the option of placing multiple weapons in the same space occupied by the Martel ARM.  Personally, I like the way the Martel ARM looks and it does have a very large warhead which means more collateral damage to the air defense weapons and supporting equipment.  

You must also be prepared to place several very convincing bulges, bumps, antennas on your Mirage 2000C(BS) (BS="Belette Sauvage") to give it that anti-radar mission look.  

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

oh!! Thanks for your help guys!

Renamed the title for you as requested biggrin.gif

Wooooooooaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! It's maaaaaaaagiiic!!!!!  

(Now how do you say "IRON HAND" in the french language?)

"Main de Fer"
It means you have a great power, great strong, to do what you really WANT to do, and nothing can stop you. And you have moreover a great authority...
But there are many different connotations.


I don't thing the Martel missile is a good solution. I like the look of this missile, and above all, Mirage 2000 can carry it. But many years ago, French Air Force decide to not use this missile anymore, and it is not build anymore. And my Mirage will first fly in 2011

The ALARM is a possible solution, but I haven't any of this missile in my "Magic Box".

I want a little model, easy to build, and as I have the 2 Super-530 of the original model, I compare them with Harm missiles: they have quite the same dimensions and weight.

I could immagine that in a crisis situation, France will transform its last Mirage into Wild Weasel and so the Super 530. The last models will be transformed into anti-radiations missiles.

I think the first missiles my model will have will be those "new" modified 530, because I have just those missiles  
But I prefer the ALARM, so, when I find a missile kit, I promess you I'll buy it and equiped my Mirage with!! deal??

You must also be prepared to place several very convincing bulges, bumps, antennas on your Mirage 2000C(BS) (BS="Belette Sauvage") to give it that anti-radar mission look.

i don't thought about that.  
It's a simple but great idea, the model will be more realistic

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Hi Yannick, 

"Main de Fer," I like that.  Using the kit provided Super 530 missiles as an anti-radar weapon is a good sound idea.  The U.S. Navy experiemented and tested an anti-radar version of the AIM-7 Sparrow missile.  This missile was given the name "BRAZO" (spanish for ARM).  The tests were successful but the anti-radar version of the Sparrow was never put into production.  I always considered that a mistake since it would have provided an alternative to the standard method of continuous guiding of the missile with radar data to engage the target.  This option could have been included in the Sparrow missile as an option for the pilot to select during combat and it certainly would have provided the opposition with another threat that would have to be countered or overcome. 

There are now some air to air missiles and surface to air missiles that do have a capability called "home on jam" which causes the missile to automatically seek out the source of the jamming signal from the electronic countermeasures equipment carried by the target aircraft.  So if the target turns on the jammers, they are providing the missile with another means of tracking them which means they will be destroyed unless they have the ability to outrun or out manuever the weapon.  Either way, the target will be destroyed or rendered ineffective to its intended mission.

[elmayerle]

Just a thought, if you want a full-out SEAD warload, the ARM Sidewinders were AGM-122A "Sidearm" conversions of early-model Sidewinders (I seem to remember that it was made easier by using the radar-guided ones that the F-8's carried) so a ARM versions of the Magic II are plausible along with ARM versions of the Super 530.

I've got one other thought for you, though it'd take a spot of work to do it.  Being something of a sneaky type, the thought occurs to me that it might be interesting to replace the laser-guiding module(s) of a LGB with the receiver and guidance section of an ARM.  Imagine the look on the faces of the folk in the other side's radar van as a 500 lb bomb, or heavier, homes directly onto their antenna.

Just my $0.02,
Evan

[Hobbes]

Excellent idea, I can't wait to see the model.
The ALARM missiles are going to be hard to find, there are only a few kits that contain them.  

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

Using the kit provided Super 530 missiles as an anti-radar weapon is a good sound idea. The U.S. Navy experiemented and tested an anti-radar version of the AIM-7 Sparrow missile. This missile was given the name "BRAZO" (spanish for ARM). The tests were successful but the anti-radar version of the Sparrow was never put into production. I always considered that a mistake since it would have provided an alternative to the standard method of continuous guiding of the missile with radar data to engage the target. This option could have been included in the Sparrow missile as an option for the pilot to select during combat and it certainly would have provided the opposition with another threat that would have to be countered or overcome.

There are now some air to air missiles and surface to air missiles that do have a capability called "home on jam" which causes the missile to automatically seek out the source of the jamming signal from the electronic countermeasures equipment carried by the target aircraft. So if the target turns on the jammers, they are providing the missile with another means of tracking them which means they will be destroyed unless they have the ability to outrun or out manuever the weapon. Either way, the target will be destroyed or rendered ineffective to its intended mission.

Very interesting!! Thanks JF !!

I think I will put ARM version of the 530 finally. It's a logically choice.
Imagine: the French Air Force is engage in a war and need a SEAD capability. But it loose its last SEAD airplanes when MARTEL is retired and when ARMAT was cancelled.
So a "crash programm" is needed: severall old Mirage 2000 destined to second-hand exportation are finally transform into SEAD aircraft.
And as the 530 is a guided missile, it's easy to transform it into an ARM missile, like the Sparrow you talk about!!

I love the idea!!
And with the capabilities of the missile, it will be a good anti-AWACS or anti-jamming missile, don't you thinK??

Maybe not enough rang to shoot a E-3, but maybe to enough to shoot a EA-6 likes aircraft.


For the AIM-122, I havn't a lot of Sidewinders in stock. I'll see that



Ok guys!!!

You convince me to done this Mirage first!!! (Before my ASM-antiship Rafale)

Thank you all for your help and your support!! I really love this community

Pictures will come soon

And if you have other idea, I'm still here  

[Geoff_B]

Hi PDS

I know Heller are issuing the Airfix Tornado GR-4 some time this year with new Operation Telic Decals (No idea why Airfix didn't do this in the first place   ).

This model has both ALARM and Storm Shadow as well as the US Laser guided bombs of Paveway II & III classes. That would give you ALARM and the Storm Shadow can be used as SCALP or Apache for your Rafale. The Italeri ECR Tornado kit also has the ALARM in addition to the US HARM for the Italian & German SEAD aircraft.

We really need Hasegawa to do a modern European Armament set to go with their US and Japanese sets.

Cheers

Geoff B

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

In 1/72 the GR.4???
Cause I forgot to notice the scale of my Mirage.

I hope it will be in 72: cause a Tornado + Alarm + Storm Shadow...  

[Davey B]

Great idea -- I'd go for the modified Super 530 option  

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

Today I scratch a lot: pylons for the Super 530, 2 electronic pods for the wing's ends, modified 2000L tanks, a lot of putty and sans-stick.

The Heller base model is an horror!!! But I promess you the first picture tomorrow or monday

I don't know yet if I will do the panel lines...

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Yannick,

Have you considered placing a small pod on the vertical stabilizer similar to the F-4G Wild Weasel or the long rectangular shaped RWR that was used on the RAF Phantoms? 

The AIM-54 certainly had that feature (HOJ). Supposedly the AIM-120 has it as well.

I was unaware of the HOJ option on the AIM-54 but it does make sense.  As for the AIM-120, it would be foolish to not have this feature built in to the weapon. 

I have also read in various sources that the AGM-69 SRAM was also offered to the USAF with the HOJ/ARM feature to allow the weapon to be used against surveillance radars and air defense radars but the USAF did not order that feature.  I guess this is the true definition of "terminal jamming" since the weapon would have not only destroyed the target but also create an EMP which would have fried a lot of other things in the vicinity as well. 

[nev]

Sound interesting PD7.  You've already started now, but I would have thought a 2 seater Mirage 2000B/N/D would have been better as a WW, the USAF F-16CJ is the only single seat plane I know of that performs the SEAD role.

Oh, and the Revell 1/72 Tornado GR1 also includes ALARMs, but your idea of converting missiles is a good one, the 530 certainly has a distictive look.

As for that Heller kit,  I recently built one myself, and she is a real dog!

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

Have you considered placing a small pod on the vertical stabilizer similar to the F-4G Wild Weasel or the long rectangular shaped RWR that was used on the RAF Phantoms?

I think it will be something like the RAF Phantoms, or maybe like the Rafale has: it could be a derivated of the actuall SPECTRA system used by the Rafale.
Some tell that this system is very good.

Raised panel lines - when I say raised, I mean raised to the height of the Rocky Mountains. These totally spoil the clean lines of the 2000, so I decided to scrape/sand them off but I'm not bothering to re-scribe them as

That is in your first post Nav, and that exactly what I think.

This Heller model is really really bad (not like the Puma or the Siking. Even the Super Etendard is better!!)
But I do it for fun, to be sure I remember how to paint a model

Oh!!! Just an other question. I ask for long why in English you use "she" for a plane or a boat. I read that in Coonts or Clancy novel but don't know why it's always she

[ysi_maniac]

A collaboration along the lines of the Jaguar and Concorde.

What about Mirage 3000?

As I mentioned in the 'Vive la France' GB thread: Mirage-3000 project is mentioned in Paul Jackson Mirage book as a development of Mirage-2000 powered by a pair of RB-199. It is mentioned too in our brother site http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,757.0/highlight,mirage+3000.html in a thread started by Archibald.

To go with this project I will take a Mirage-2000 (1 or 2 seat not decided yet) and an aft fuselage from an Eurofighter. It is better than Tornado's because of wing root.

1- The 2000's wings must be separated to leave room for the Eurofighter engines.

2- This will leave a gap between wings and 2000's fuselage in leading edge. About 4.5 mm each side.

3- To fill this gap I will extend the wings' leading edge root.

4- To acheive this in a natural way, 2000's fuselage must be stretched about 15mm.

5- 2000's fuselage must be cut and widened to fit with Eurofighter aft fuselage.

With these maneouvres the new dimensions will be: 15 mm longer, that multiplied by 72 is 1080 mm, and 9 mm more span, that multiplied by 72 is 648 mm

6- With air intakes, there are many possibilities:
- Enlarged semicircular with half cone centerbody (a la Mirage-2000). Difficult to get/create and easy to fair them.
- Tornado intakes. Easy to get and difficult to fair.
- Phantom intakes. Something between them.

7- Canard planes. No doubt, from a Kfir.

8- The rest: tail fin, cockpit and nose will remain untouched right from the Mirage-2000.