avatar_Pellson

1963 vintage Airfix E.E Lightning F.1A 1/72

Started by Pellson, October 20, 2024, 01:15:16 PM

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The Wooksta!

Oh, and bringing the F1As up to F2 standard is a big job, as the older aircraft had a four stage reheat, with fully variable on the F2 onwards. 
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
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"Dance, dance, dance, dance, dance to the radio!"

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Pellson

Quote from: The Wooksta! on October 27, 2024, 01:49:15 PMOnly 74 Sqn had the F1, which didn't have IFR capability.  At best there were 19 and at least half were scrapped by 1966. The survivors were largely second line training aircraft, gate guards or instructional airframes.

The F2A came in gradually from 1968 and externally nigh identical to early F6.  Not Red Top capable and the wings were not stressed for the overwing tanks.  31 conversions.

Oh, and bringing the F1As up to F2 standard is a big job, as the older aircraft had a four stage reheat, with fully variable on the F2 onwards. 

Yes, as the original F.1's were more or less hand built, they did not only lack lots in comparison to the F.1A/F.2, but also differed considerably between themselves. However, in Whifworld, that may be overlooked, or possibly explained away (Kit's 2nd Rule). The inability to IFR could, theoretically, be cared for by taking undamaged wings from those F.1A's and F.2's that suffered engine fires on the ground. There are quite a few up to ca 1968, so the available second hand wings may actually suffice for the few available F.1's. ;)
The F.2A flew in September 1965, not quite half a year after the F.6 prototype, so I would have guessed the decision to convert the F.2's was made early 1965. And that's the point where I intend to deviate from reality.
As for the afterburner, it's actually not that big of a job. The afterburner as such is a separate part of the engine, one you relatively easy can withdraw rearwards through the tail of the aircraft, without having to lift out the engine. Also, the controls are manual (lever and wire), so very easily reconfigurable with a new backing plate in the cockpit. Hence, an afterburner replacement is really more of a field modification than a factory job.
The big job in my sequence would be to upgrade the electronics and radar. That would entail not only new parts in the inlet bulb, but also a good deal of wiring, new electronic boxes (where the guns once resided) and not least, an entirely new dash in the cockpit. That is factory work, but it's also what is driving cost. Hence, saving costs of new wings, tails and fuel bellies, perhaps more electronic kits could be afforded, allowing for more radar missile capable interceptors in the field? Also, as I would assume the F.3's and F.6's would have received the same upgrade in the same sequence, the number of kits would have been reasonably large, meaning lower unit cost.

I really appreciate your input. It helps a lot to sharpen my arguments, making for a better backstory.  :thumbsup:
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

The Wooksta!

You're assuming that there was enough left of the F1a's that suffered engine fires survived - often, the pilots banged out. Away from my primary references so can't check the individual histories.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"Dance, dance, dance, dance, dance to the radio!"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic

Pellson

Quote from: The Wooksta! on October 28, 2024, 03:08:09 AMYou're assuming that there was enough left of the F1a's that suffered engine fires survived - often, the pilots banged out. Away from my primary references so can't check the individual histories.

I found a page on Wikipedia about Lightning losses, but regardless of that - Kits 2nd rule applies. If the reality don't work, just adjust a little bit in your backstory..  ;)
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

PR19_Kit

Quote from: Pellson on October 28, 2024, 03:48:51 AMI found a page on Wikipedia about Lightning losses, but regardless of that - Kits 2nd rule applies. If the reality don't work, just adjust a little bit in your backstory..  ;)


Exactly, that's WHY it's a Rule!  ;D
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

NARSES2

That's looking quite good in that shot, the image it'self has a certain "period" quality.  :thumbsup:
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Pellson

Quote from: NARSES2 on October 28, 2024, 06:43:59 AMThat's looking quite good in that shot, the image it'self has a certain "period" quality.  :thumbsup:

The light was outright awful, probably leading to a 1960's picture quality..  ;D
The kit is good fun, though. Few parts, reasonable fit but still bad enough to make sure that the thirty years of experience I've gathered since building my last Airfix Lightning does make quite the difference.

Re the backstory vs reality - the only reasonable way would in reality have been to scrap the F.1's, maybe update the F.1A's and then to do what they did, i.e make "almost F.6's" out of the F.2's. But what would I then have done with my F.1A model? Hence the somewhat unrealistic F.2B programme I'm suggesting. It's another backstory written after the model, not the other way around.  ;)
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

The Wooksta!

#37
Or just do it as an F2 with a different squadron.  There were enough ordered to equip four squadrons, but only two were stood up on the type.

Just need to drill out the gun ports again and another set lower down (the second set of cannons replaced the missile pack).
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"Dance, dance, dance, dance, dance to the radio!"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic

Pellson

Quote from: The Wooksta! on October 28, 2024, 07:22:52 AMOr just do it as an F2 with a different squadron.  There were enough ordered to equip four squadrons, but only two were stood up on the type.

Nah. I've looked at that and just don't find it enticing enough.  ;)
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

Pellson

Quote from: The Wooksta! on October 28, 2024, 03:08:09 AMYou're assuming that there was enough left of the F1a's that suffered engine fires survived - often, the pilots banged out. Away from my primary references so can't check the individual histories.

Having found the Lightning Association's homepage, it seems the accident rate wasn't that bad, and only six of the F.1's, eleven of the F.1a's and two of the F.2 Lightnings were unplanned writeoffs. Out of these, at least seven were useable for spares, for instance wings accepting probes, theoretically leaving just over 100 airframes for modernisation. Out of these, about 20 were preproduction aircraft, but the balance would still be more than enough for four squadrons. And in theory, even some of the preproduction Lightnings could have been taken in hand for modernisation, should the need for active fighters have been seen as urgent.

Given above, I think I have a reasonable case for a working backstory.  ;)

From the construction perspective, I've only filed a little bit on the ailerons since my last post here. The wing plan form does look much better now, so next step will be to decide whether to add a pair of light missile pylons under the outer wings for a total of four missiles carried, or not. Both options have their benefits and drawbacks, so I won't stress any decision.

You cannot view this attachment.

Ending with one of the Lightnings that wouldn't have been modified, namely preproduction F.1 XG332 that went down at Hatfield on 13-9-62, the pilot G Arid miraculously surviving despite the very late ejection. But a magnificent action photo it is.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

NARSES2

I've seen that pphoto a few times, and have often wondered how big a hole it made in the ground ?
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

mat

Found this picture of the crash site of XG332. It just missed some greenhouses
You cannot view this attachment.

Pellson

Quote from: mat on November 08, 2024, 02:28:02 AMFound this picture of the crash site of XG332. It just missed some greenhouses
..which can be seen in the background of the first picture above. Great find, mat! :thumbsup:
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

NARSES2

Quote from: Pellson on November 08, 2024, 03:47:19 AM
Quote from: mat on November 08, 2024, 02:28:02 AMFound this picture of the crash site of XG332. It just missed some greenhouses
..which can be seen in the background of the first picture above. Great find, mat! :thumbsup:

Indeed it is  :thumbsup:
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

PR19_Kit

It looks a bit flat in that 2nd pic.

The first one was taken just by chance IIRC, the photog just happened to be driving by at the time, amazing.  :thumbsup:
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit