avatar_Joe C-P

Foreign battleships taken in US/RN service during WW2 (and one WW1)

Started by Joe C-P, Yesterday at 01:18:17 PM

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Joe C-P

These all started out as ideas for model conversions.  I did end up building a couple, but my focus has drifted to other concepts, and my budget and space are much more limited, so I'm presenting them for your amusement and potential inspiration.
They're not entirely realistic, yet not too far from reality and thus buildable from existing models.
Plus with all you plane nuts I want to reassure the other shippers they're not forgotten.   <_<


Comte deGrasse, ex-Jean Bart

After being floated out sans weapons, taken to complete her sister Richelieu, Jean Bart was sent to the US for repair and completion.  With many battleships had been lost or heavily damaged, she could be completed faster than new builds.  By late 1944 she was ready for action.

Her main barbettes now carried 16"/50 triple turrets meant for the Iowa class Illinois, paused to focus on escort and amphibious vessels.  The three 6" triples were spares from Cleveland cruisers converted to CVLs, the lighter AA cannons replaced with 5"/25 singles plus a multitude of 40mm and 20mm weapons about the decks and superstructure.

A significant minority of her crew hailed from Louisiana, their Creole French invaluable interpreting labels and documentation not yet translated.

Named USS Comte deGrasse, BB 76, she sailed with the USN fleet while her still-French sister Richelieu joined their RN allies.  Jean Bart's speed allowed her to directly escort fleet carriers beside the US fast BBs, providing AA coverage through the end of the war.  Her only chance at action was sailing to meet Yamato off Okinawa, arriving to help rescue IJN sailors from the ships sunken by air attack.

She was returned to France in August 1945, for whom she first served off French Indochina with her semi-sister Richelieu.  Once she returned home her equipment would be replaced with French material, the American components scrapped with the approval of the US, providing much needed metals for the French economy.


Amerigo Vespucci, ex-Vittorio Veneto

After the Italian surrender in 1943 the Vittorio Veneto was awarded to the United States as reparations.  As a modern fast battleship she was coveted, so instead of being interned she set sail for America, a small complement of Italian sailors supporting the American crew, which included a fair number of sons of Italy, while her surviving sister Littorio was assigned to serve with the Royal Navy, along the smaller Andrea Doria battleships and some smaller vessels.  Those remained in the Mediterranean, freeing some RN ships for the Far East conflict.

Her main armament was retained, two US Army ammunitions ships tasked with transporting 15" shells from her former home country.  The 6" triples' guns were replaced by spares from Cleveland class to ensure commonality, the exposed 120mm removed and replaced with shielded 20mm plus more added across the ship, the twelve 90mm replaced by eight 5" single mounts, and the 37mm replaced by 40mm Bofors. 

Christened USS Amerigo Vespucci, BB 75, she served on the Murmansk run through 1944, watching for Tirpitz and Scharnhorst until the former was sunk.  Though older battleships were considered enough to ward off the latter, Vespucci's limited range and need for spares from her former nation kept Amerigo in the Atlantic. Post-war she was returned to Italy under the requirement she was scrapped, which process was delayed for some years as Italy hoped she might be allowed to retain her.


USS von Steuben, ex-battleship Ostfriesland

Taken by the US as reparations.  Used in testing airborne bombing, which were unsuccessful at first due to the small size of the bombs.  During the second round, Navy radio operators and engineers tested a remote control system, designed by John Hays Hammond Jr. (he's real, look him up) controlling her from a distance as General Mitchell's bombers attacked again.  The radio controllers avoided most of the bombs, but two landed close to her stern, wrecking one prop and her rudder.  Army and Navy officers boarded, finding once again the damage superficial except for the loss of steering control, which was considered disabling.  They decided the matter settled, though General Mitchell would openly disagree with the published conclusions.  Ostfriesland was towed back to port; the persistent Mitchell would eventually be allowed further bombing tests with older battleships, again with results open to interpretation by both sides of the planes-versus-ships argument.

Ostfriesland somehow escaped the general scrapping of old battleships; classified as an experimental ship, her main guns cut off, the ship was mothballed and tucked away among many other ships at Philadelphia.

As tensions rose in the Pacific in the late 1930s, the USN needed every capital ship at hand.  Ostfriesland, despite her age, was still a dreadnought and could be a useful deterrent.  Therefore she was taken out of mothballs, repaired and modernized to burn oil fuel, her main guns replaced with USN weapons, the casemated 5.9" replaced with 5"/51, with four 5"/25 and six 1.1" quads for anti-aircraft defense.

Assigned the name USS von Steuben, and classified as monitor BM-11 rather than a battleship, she was sent to Wake Island to serve as a floating fortress.  This being the Pacific, while she being meant for the North Sea, the ship proved a floating oven, so in time the crew were allowed to live ashore, boarding ship for maintenance, drills and exercises, and the occasional cruise to keep her engines and gear trains working. 

After hearing of the Pearl Harbor and Philippines attacks, the forces at Wake knew they would soon also be attacked.  von Steuben had been scheduled to return to the US for a much-needed refit and upgrade, but this now impossible her crew did their best to prepare her to defend the island.

During the first Japanese air attack wave, von Steuben was hit and damaged, AA guns her only useful weapons.  After considerable debate and with more information about the attack on Pearl Harbor, her captain ordered her to shallow water, just a few feet under her keel, to protect from torpedoes and keep her deck above surface should she be sunk.

As the Japanese bombed the island she took damage, the aft main turret wrecked without casualties as they were unmanned.  Once the Japanese invasion force was sighted the big gun crews were sent to their posts, her heavy artillery helping fend off the first attempt.  This brought her additional attention, dive bombers dropping modified battleship shells to render her ineffective before the IJN's next landing attempt, where her armored hull served as a massive pillbox, helping the defenders hold down the Japanese troops long enough for rescue to arrive.  A USN fleet drove back the IJN long enough to evacuate civilians and most of the defenders, a volunteer force remaining behind to cover the withdrawal.

von Steuben's hull remained in place through the war, the Japanese arming it with AA guns.  Once US forces bypassed the island, the aged battleship's hulk served as a bombing and shelling target for passing ships until the end of the war, when the garrison was forced to surrender.  The heavily damaged ship was unable to be refloated, to be scrapped in place.


USS Virginia, ex-Howe

During one of their meetings before the US was forced into the war, Churchill and Roosevelt came up with a Lend-Lease trading one of the last two KGV battleships for six US cruisers - two heavy Portland class, and two Brooklyn and two Omaha light.  Both leaders were chastised in private, to which Roosevelt explained the cruisers were now actively serving while the US needed fast BBs to face the Japanese, while Churchill reminded that six cruisers could cover far more sea than one partially-built battleship.  When HMS Ursula sank the Tirpitz, any doubts about the trade were dispelled.

For Britain the Omahas would serve as convoy leaders, the more modern cruisers proving their value against German ships, most famously when the former Portland and Brooklyn battled Scharnhorst and Gneisenau as they dashed up the English Channel.

Howe was completed to her 01 deck with a temporary navigation bridge so she could be sailed across the Atlantic.  The US adapted the barbettes to carry 16"/45 triples based on those of the SoDak class, the twin custom built.  She received eight 5"/38 twins and multiple 40mm and 20mm, her superstructure based on the Iowa class.

Additionally the bow was updated with raised bulwarks and a small bow bulb foot, with void spaces opened for fuel to expand her capacity and so increase her range.

By February 1942 she commenced her shakedown cruise and soon headed to the Pacific.  She served with the other fast BBs escorting carriers battle groups, battling the IJN.  Late in the war she met her RN half-sister King George V while operating off Iwo Jima providing fire support to troops ashore.  Post-war she was returned to Britain, to be laid up with her former sisters until scrapped.


Taiwanese Nagato BBG

Nagato survived WW2, just.  Refloated, planned for use in nuclear tests, but the appearance of Soviet BBs and BCs made her continued service necessary.

Only two turrets could be restored, so they are placed forward, while the damaged stern is rebuilt with two twin Terrier launchers.

Japan is not trusted with a battleship, so she is transferred to Taiwan, classified as a coastal defense ship, her presence a deterrent to mainland Communist China.  When the Soviet heavy armored ships are retired in the 1960s, she too is taken out of service and scrapped.

Two twin 15"
Two single 5" dual purpose
Two twin 3" AA
Two twin Terrier launchers
Landing pad for a helicopter

The model depicts her before the directors and radar were installed.


British Minas Geraes in WW2

Despite an attempt to update her from 1939 to 1942, she was not able to operate effectively.  As part of the cost for Brasil aiding the Allies they insisted she be updated.  She managed to sail to the US in early 1943, where significant repairs were made to her machinery, along with upgrades to her accommodations, and electronics to allow her     Modern AA guns were added; the original mains and secondaries retained.

Her primary duty would be escorting convoys across the Atlantic to Africa and the Mediterranean theater.


US service for Rivadavia class

When the US lost many battleships at Pearl Harbor, in searching for replacements the USN found and invoked a treaty clause with Argentina to buy back their US-built battleships to prevent them being sold to any combatant nation.

In the US the ships were remarked with English, the fore and aft 6" casemates plated over, plus the torpedo tubes.  The deck 4" guns we're replaced with 5"/23 plus 1" quad AA.

While their range would have served in the Pacific, their age, speed, and armament were not adequate in fighting the Japanese battle line.  Instead they sailed the Atlantic, freeing the new build battleships to sail to the Pacific as they came into service.


USS Radetzky and Zrinyi

During naval disarmament treaty negotiations, following President Teddy Roosevelt's instruction, the US delegation convince the Great Powers a separate limit for pre-dreadnoughts. Each country would be allowed a few for colonial deployments or experimentation, separate from the tonnage allotments for modern dreadnoughts.  The convincing argument was how such ships could not safely nor effectively join a modem battleline, while being effective deterrents against smaller aggressors.

By the time the treaty was signed, Roosevelt was no longer president and the US had sold, repurposed, or sunk their remaining pre-dreadnoughts.  Therefore for the backbone of a US Mediterranean squadron the former Austro-Hungarian pre-dreadnoughts Zrinyi and Radetsky would serve as flagships, the US having control of them to maintain peace between Italy and the new Yugoslavia.  They would serve primarily as accommodation and receiving vessels, and tenders for smaller ships that travelled the Med and Red Seas on diplomatic and flag-showing missions.  These missions helped stabilize the region after the collapse of Ottoman Empire.

The ships would be serviced in Yugoslavia, supporting local economy and employment while bringing the new country into the US sphere of influence, as was similarly done with Philippines and Cuba.  (I have another document for those stories.)

Their designations were debated until it was decided they would be BBL 1 and 2, as the USN was considering building more small battleships for coastal defense and export sale.  In time that plan was abandoned, so this acquired pair would be the only light battleships so assigned.

Their service would last into the 1930s, until the next round of disarmament talks when any remaining pre-dreadnoughts were lumped in with capital ships, causing their general disposal around the world.


In want of hobby space!  The kitchen table is never stable.  Still managing to get some building done.

NARSES2

Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Rheged

An imaginative idea, and well written too.

  Of course we must not forget HMS Royal Sovereign, which in May 1944 really was loaned to the Soviet navy as the  Arkhangelsk.
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you....."
It  means that you read  the instruction sheet

Weaver

Nice idea! :thumbsup:

Here's one for you:

USS Vanguard.

The British government decided that completion of the carriers Audacious (later renamed Eagle) and Ark Royal was more important than the battleship Vanguard. By cancelling the latter (started 18 months earlier) and shuffling orders for smaller vessels around between yards, this got Eagle finished just in time for the end of the war and Ark Royal shortly after. Not wishing to see a battleship hull go to waste, the USN offered to take over Vanguard, so she was finished to a seaworthy state and then towed across the Atlantic to be completed. She was armed with four twin 16" gun turrets taken from the never-completed Colorado class battleship USS Washington, which had been in storage as spares since 1921 (ironically mirroring the RN's intention to arm her with 15" turrets taken from the battlecruisers Courageous and Glorious during their aircraft carrier conversions in the 1920s). The intended British 5.25" DP guns were replaced with eight twin 5"/38 Mk.12 turrets, and numerous 40mm and 20mm guns. Launched in November 1944, she saw action in the Pacific.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

PR19_Kit

I like the Vanguard idea, having seen her once.  ;D

Did anyone ever do a kit of the Vanguard, in any scale?
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Steel Penguin

the Vignettes so far are wonderful  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
id ask for HMS Agincourt, as ive not realy got any ideas  :banghead:
the things you learn, give your mind the wings to fly, and the chains to hold yourself steady
take off and nuke the site form orbit, nope, time for the real thing, CAM and gridfire, call special circumstances. 
wow, its like freefalling into the Geofront
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scooter

I did something similar with the German Mackensen-class battlecruisers being purchased from the Weimar Republic by the Londthyrian Confederate Navy, as mentioned in Scooter's Randomness - The Art of Elven Blend:

Quote from: scooter on June 04, 2021, 03:43:44 PMTaffy 4 (Colorized)

Hi Rez here

Three Yorktown-class carriers of the Londthyrian Confederacy Naval Service as part of Task Force 77.4.4 (VHF callsign Taffy 4) prior to the Battle of Leyte Gulf.  At this late stage in the war, all five LCNS carriers have Corsair-heavy air wings, with a patrol detachment of 3 or four Grumman JRF-5 Goose amphibians and a squadron of Grumman F6F Hellcats.  Taffy 4's assigned compliment of 2 (ex-Kaiserliche Marine) Mackensen-class battlecruisers and surviving pre-war cruisers were detached and assigned to TF77.2's Fire Support Group, under RADM Jesse Oldendorf.


The F-106- 26 December 1956 to 8 August 1988
Gone But Not Forgotten

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