Mini "American" Landkreuzer

seadude · December 29, 2024, 09:30:14 AM

I've got a whole bunch of spare 1/350 scale 16" gun turrets from old TAMIYA 1/350 scale Missouri and New Jersey battleship kits. Sample pic below.
The entire thing is about 2 inches wide x 3 inches long and is about 3/8 inch high.
Just as the Germans had proposed the Landkreuzer P1000 super heavy tank back in WW2, I had the thought of what if the Americans had countered the Germans with their own version of an Americanized Landkreuzer?
But what size tank chassis can I put a 1/350 scale gun turret on? What would work? 1/48? 1/72? 1/35? or something else?

perttime · December 29, 2024, 10:02:10 AM

2 inches wide.... at 1/72 it would be about 12 foot wide in real world. A little wider than a Tiger or Panther. Much wider than a Sherman. At 1/48, it would be 8 foot: almost as wide as a Sherman.

frank2056 · December 29, 2024, 10:50:06 AM

In 1/350, the original Landkreuzer tracks would be about 10.3mm (0.40") wide, each. TheT-34 tracks were around 500mm-510mm wide, so you could use 1/48 T-34 tracks, which would be about 10mm - the right size in 1/350.

Rather than finding a hull and tracks that would fit, why don't you design the superstructure to fit the turrets, give it a supersized American esthetic, then look for a lower hull and tracks that would fit? You also try combining the tracks from several 1/144 tanks (which are relatively cheep) and would be slightly more "realistic" - fixing a thrown track, 3.5m wide, would be quite a production and would put the vehicle out of operation for most of a day.

jcf · December 29, 2024, 11:36:28 AM

Quote from: frank2056 on December 29, 2024, 10:50:06 AMIn 1/350, the original Landkreuzer tracks would be about 10.3mm (0.40") wide, each. TheT-34 tracks were around 500mm-510mm wide, so you could use 1/48 T-34 tracks, which would be about 10mm - the right size in 1/350.

Rather than finding a hull and tracks that would fit, why don't you design the superstructure to fit the turrets, give it a supersized American esthetic, then look for a lower hull and tracks that would fit? You also try combining the tracks from several 1/144 tanks (which are relatively cheep) and would be slightly more "realistic" - fixing a thrown track, 3.5m wide, would be quite a production and would put the vehicle out of operation for most of a day.

Fixing a single, continuous track on a thing
like the Landkreuzer would probably take more like a week than a day.

Rick Lowe · December 29, 2024, 12:21:30 PM

What about an American Monitor?
Something to give (a lot of) fire support to the Brown Water Navy...

Or throw it onto something Cruiser-sized; a US take on the so-called Pocket Battleship.

Old Wombat · December 30, 2024, 12:21:55 AM

I have a feeling that a 1/35 Churchill tank might suit what you're after.

The hull might (will) need a bit of re-working but the numerous small road wheels would work & the track is, for the scale, fairly narrow.

I don't have instant access to my Mk.VII right now, for getting accurate measurements, but I'm fairly sure it'd do the trick.

Rick Lowe · December 30, 2024, 01:35:03 AM

Probably the easiest way to rework the hull would be to use the existing track units and replace the middle bit entirely,
You'd be able to scab details from the parts onto it again, but placing them where you wanted them and not having to cover over those that were inconveniently situated.

jcf · December 30, 2024, 10:03:50 AM

According to this article the profile of the P.1000 is not how the actual project looked. It's based on midunderstanding of written descriptions. One feature that all of Grote's concepts had in common, going back to the early 1930s, was three runs of track on each side of the vehicle. Each individual track was 1.2 meters wide.

Projekt P.1000

Photo of mockup of first configuration, October 1942, 2.5 meter diameter road wheels:
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Second configuration, December 1942, larger number of smaller road wheels:
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jcf · December 30, 2024, 10:13:04 AM

Grote's earlier 1,000 tonne Fortress Tank

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seadude · December 30, 2024, 10:23:30 AM

Quote from: jcf on December 30, 2024, 10:03:50 AMAccording to this article the profile of the P.1000 is not how the actual project looked. It's based on midunderstanding of written descriptions. One feature that all of Grote's concepts had in common, going back to the early 1930s, was three runs of track on each side of the vehicle. Each individual track was 1.2 meters wide.

Projekt P.1000

Photo of mockup of first configuration, October 1942, 2.5 meter diameter road wheels:
You cannot view this attachment.

Second configuration, December 1942, larger number of smaller road wheels:
You cannot view this attachment.

I'm not sure, but I think both of those pics are in this book (Below) that I borrowed and read from a friend. In fact, I still need to buy that book sometime.

Rick Lowe · December 30, 2024, 11:36:36 AM

I really do see those as early concepts for Bolos. Though with much less in the way of armaments...

kerick · December 30, 2024, 11:47:59 AM

You would need a tower with a bridge to pilot the thing and direct fire. Nice fantasy but to think the Germans actually wasted time and resources on these sort of things is astounding.

Rick Lowe · December 30, 2024, 11:53:54 AM

Though it stopped them from building other things that worked, and extending the Unpleasantness.

kerick · December 30, 2024, 02:00:59 PM

True
Much like their rocket program. It wasted their resources and didn't really change the course of the war.

jcf · December 30, 2024, 03:33:59 PM

I love the writer's comment on the October 1942 configuration:

"The arrangement really looked almost childlike in the idea of cramming as many guns or turrets onto a hull as possible, seemingly with little thought as to how these might actually be used."