F-14 Tomcat

[Shasper]

For the first half of the above, I'll refrain from responding only to say that the course of action taken by the Navy was deemed necessary at the time (and it was more than just a few accidents IIRC). As for the 2nd half, well that would deserve to be addressed in another thread.

However, since the GE F110 does put out more thrust than the defunct F401, the Navy did make the overall best decision IMHO.

Shas

[KJ_Lesnick]

Was the USN forced by the government to band-aid the TF-30?  Or did it choose to do so by itself?

KJ

[GTX]

Was the USN forced by the government to band-aid the TF-30?  Or did it choose to do so by itself?

KJ

Define "band-aid".  The USAF and RAAF operated/continue to operate the TF-30 very successfully for many decades in the F-111.

Regards,

Greg

[tinlail]

BTW:  Do you know how much the F-4E, or F-4F actually weighs
-Empty,
-At Combat-weight
-Fully-loaded

And what their fuel capacities are (as their sizes -- 63-feet -- are closer to the F-15's)?

F-4
Length - 63 ft. (19.2 m)
Wingspan - 38 ft., 5 in. (11.7 m)
Height - 16 ft. (5 m)
Wing area - 530 sq. ft. (49 m2)
Weight - 29,500 lbs. empty
Maximum takeoff weight –58,000 lbs.

F-14D
Length     62 ft 8 in
Wingspan (unswept)    64 ft 1.5 in
Wingspan (swept)    38 ft 2.5 in
Height    16 ft
Wing Area    565 sqft
Empty Weight    43,735 pounds
Max. Weight    72,000 pounds

F-15A
Length: 63.78 ft
Wingspan/Width: 42.78 ft
Height: 18.50 ft
Wing area: 608 ft²
Empty Weight: 27,000 lbs
MTOW: 56,002 lbs

F-15E
Length: 63.78 ft
Wingspan/Width: 42.78 ft
Height: 18.50 ft
Wing area: 608 ft²
Empty Weight: 31,700 lb
MTOW: 81,000 lb

[Shasper]

The USN took it upon itself to "Band Aid" the TF-30 (PW-414 is the model no. IIRC), this involved some redesigning of the compressor fan/stator blades and the addition of some bands around the compressor section to keep the blades from slicing thru the engine casing & damaging other bits n dodads.

Shas

[KJ_Lesnick]

The USN took it upon itself to "Band Aid" the TF-30 (PW-414 is the model no. IIRC), this involved some redesigning of the compressor fan/stator blades and the addition of some bands around the compressor section to keep the blades from slicing thru the engine casing & damaging other bits n dodads.

Shas

Hypothetically, if the USN allowed a few more accidents to happen, could they have managed to get someone to be willing to demand a new engine to be used? (like the F-401 or other etc.)

[GTX]

The USN took it upon itself to "Band Aid" the TF-30 (PW-414 is the model no. IIRC), this involved some redesigning of the compressor fan/stator blades and the addition of some bands around the compressor section to keep the blades from slicing thru the engine casing & damaging other bits n dodads.

Shas

Hypothetically, if the USN allowed a few more accidents to happen, could they have managed to get someone to be willing to demand a new engine to be used? (like the F-401 or other etc.)

Back up a minute - are you proposing (hypothetically or not) that the USN would have willingly allowed people to be killed (that's what an accident would result in after all) just to get some new engines??? 

Regards,

Greg

[Shasper]

I dunno man, I think a few A/C were lost due to in-flight compressor failure.

Shas

[tinlail]

The USN took it upon itself to "Band Aid" the TF-30 (PW-414 is the model no. IIRC), this involved some redesigning of the compressor fan/stator blades and the addition of some bands around the compressor section to keep the blades from slicing thru the engine casing & damaging other bits n dodads.

Shas

Hypothetically, if the USN allowed a few more accidents to happen, could they have managed to get someone to be willing to demand a new engine to be used? (like the F-401 or other etc.)

Back up a minute - are you proposing (hypothetically or not) that the USN would have willingly allowed people to be killed (that's what an accident would result in after all) just to get some new engines??? 

Regards,

Greg

I don't see how that has to be purposefully done. and it even could look like that was the plan in hindsight.

Somebody says "Yes, there is a problem, but the right thing to do isn't your plan of fixing the engine. But my plan of replacing the engine" and they fight for a while. and more incidents happen, and somebody could die.

[KJ_Lesnick]

Totally different topic,

Grumman, Lockheed, North American, and McDonnell Douglas...When the F-14 was built, which of these companies had the most clout politically in order?

[Burncycle]

About the F-14's inability to bring a full load of Phoenix back, is it because of ship structural limitations, or limitations of the F-14's airframe/gear? I only ask because heavier aircraft have done takeoffs and landings (F-111 / C-130) although in the latter case the footprint was quite a bit larger...

[KJ_Lesnick]

BTW:  Do you know how much the F-4E, or F-4F actually weighs
-Empty,
-At Combat-weight
-Fully-loaded

And what their fuel capacities are (as their sizes -- 63-feet -- are closer to the F-15's)?

F-4
Length - 63 ft. (19.2 m)
Wingspan - 38 ft., 5 in. (11.7 m)
Height - 16 ft. (5 m)
Wing area - 530 sq. ft. (49 m2)
Weight - 29,500 lbs. empty
Maximum takeoff weight –58,000 lbs.

F-14D
Length     62 ft 8 in
Wingspan (unswept)    64 ft 1.5 in
Wingspan (swept)    38 ft 2.5 in
Height    16 ft
Wing Area    565 sqft
Empty Weight    43,735 pounds
Max. Weight    72,000 pounds

F-15A
Length: 63.78 ft
Wingspan/Width: 42.78 ft
Height: 18.50 ft
Wing area: 608 ft²
Empty Weight: 27,000 lbs
MTOW: 56,002 lbs

F-15E
Length: 63.78 ft
Wingspan/Width: 42.78 ft
Height: 18.50 ft
Wing area: 608 ft²
Empty Weight: 31,700 lb
MTOW: 81,000 lb

Just out of curiousity, how much do the F-4B and F-4J weigh empty? 

Kendra

[tinlail]

F-4F: from: http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf4_3.html
"Measures taken to lighten the airframe, such as deletion of the rear number-7 fuel tank, the mid-air refueling receptacle, and the BLC system, cutting the weight of the F-4F by 1,500 kilograms (3,300 pounds) compared to the F-4E."


Source: http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f4.html
F-4B:
Weights: 28,000 pounds empty, 44,600 pounds gross, 38,500 pounds combat weight, 54,600 pounds maximum takeoff weight.
F-4E:
Weights: 29,535 pounds empty, 40,562 pounds gross, 38,019 pounds combat weight, 61,651 pounds maximum takeoff weight.
F-4J:
Weights: 30,770 pounds empty, 46,833 pounds gross, 41,399 pounds combat weight, pounds maximum takeoff weight.

[BillSlim]

Only Iran received them, but did other nations consider the F-14?

When the UK was developing the Tornado ADV we were offered F-14s, but the RAF decided that they would be too expensive to operate.

[BillSlim]

the decision is more related to make more of the Tornado programme , and the evaluation was im my not so humble opinion was slightly skewed .

I think there was also some thoughts that the Americans might have been trying to scupper the ADV as well.