The Stuggie 88

[Wardukw]

OK build No3 .
The Stuggie 88.....back in WW2 the Germans as we know built a ton of different tank hunters ..everything from the little Marder 1 up to the massive 78 ton Jagdtiger and at some point some bright spark thought it a great idea to take a wee Panzer 3 and the L71 88mm gun from a King Tiger and stick em together 
Now a 1/1 scale wooden mock up was built (pic to follow soon) so they were kinda serious about the idea 
Now as bad ideas go this is a pretty good one ..ya take a relatively light tank at 25 tons ...a bloody great 71 calibre gun which is nearly 6.3 mtrs long and stuff that in a casemate with bugger all actual gun movements..with nearly zero limited traverse and the same in elevation .
Crew comfort ..pretty much none ..with such large rds the L17 fired there would have been zero space to load the gun even if they converted it to the short recoil system used on a  couple of the waffentrager prototypes..still doesn't solve the problems of the main guns ammo which are 822mm long .

So to build this I'm going to use a 35th Dragon Panzer 3 hull ..ive got what I thought was a complete kit until I looked and discovered there's no road wheels for it  .
So it's gonna get Panzer 4 road wheels instead from probably 2 other P-4 parts tanks .
I'll totally scratch build the upper hull and I'll use what ever else in find to make life easier  .
I've got several L71 guns to choose from..one and two piece barrels in plastic and metal ..we'll see on those .
It'll have armoured side skirts as I want this to be a in service vehicle.
I have a suspicion this will be ugly and not smooth and flowing like say the Jagdpanzer 4 did .
But we shall see 👀 😏

[jcf]

So, basically the same as gun used on
Elefant, Nashorn and Jagdpanther stuck into a casemate on a Pzkpw III. That'll be fun seeing as the IV based Nashorn had a big open top superstructure and it couldn't carry enough ammunition. 

[kerick]

I can see this whole rig tipping in whichever direction the gun is pointing. Lord knows what would happen if it fired!

[Wardukw]

So, basically the same as gun used on
Elefant, Nashorn and Jagdpanther stuck into a casemate on a Pzkpw III. That'll be fun seeing as the IV based Nashorn had a big open top superstructure and it couldn't carry enough ammunition.

Basically yes Jon but worse as the Stug I'd fully enclosed 😆
Unlike a normal Stug from what I can see the roof height looks higher than standard..with this gun that's not surprising at all 

[jcf]

PAK 43 in Nashorn with horizontally sliding breechblock.
You cannot view this attachment.

PAK 43 on carriage with vertically sliding breechblock.
You cannot view this attachment. 
Use the vertically sliding block and have the rounds dropped in from above using an endless chain manually cranked "bucket" system. The buckets also act as a loading tray and a guide for the fired cases to be ejected out of the rear of the casemate via a port.

It would be suitably overcomplicated
and very German.

[Wardukw]

I can see this whole rig tipping in whichever direction the gun is pointing. Lord knows what would happen if it fired!

Since it's got no turret bud that's not a problem..the problem is the recoil ..it'll bugger the drive train quite quickly..a crap load of nose weight ..so shredded front road wheels..suspension breakages.
The guns elevation and traverse will be maybe 5° left and right and possibly 6 to 10 up..bloody terrible really 😆

[jcf]

So, basically the same as gun used on
Elefant, Nashorn and Jagdpanther stuck into a casemate on a Pzkpw III. That'll be fun seeing as the IV based Nashorn had a big open top superstructure and it couldn't carry enough ammunition.

Basically yes Jon but worse as the Stug I'd fully enclosed 😆
Unlike a normal Stug from what I can see the roof height looks higher than standard..with this gun that's not surprising at all 

On Nashorn the engine was relocated
to the centre of the chassis to allow for the open fighting compartment. The armour of the compartment was a reassuring 30mm thick.

[Wardukw]

PAK 43 in Nashorn with horizontally sliding breechblock.
You cannot view this attachment.

PAK 43 on carriage with vertically sliding breechblock.
You cannot view this attachment.
Use the vertically sliding block and have the rounds dropped in from above using an endless chain manually cranked "bucket" system. The buckets also act as a loading tray and a guide for the fired cases to be ejected out of the rear of the casemate via a port.

It would be suitably overcomplicated
and very German.

Jon what you see in the second pic isn't a PAK 43 ..what ya see is a KWK 43 ...literally ripped out of a King Tiger or Hunting Panther and ground mounted .
The breach is a dead give away ...weapons of pure desperation bud .
I've been taking a gander at several waffentragers ..Krupp..Alket and I've noticed one thing ..the length of the guns overall ...the gun mantles are extremely long ..alot longer than those on the tanks .
What I think they did was take a standard length gun and just move the whole thing forward ..you can see it best on the 2 piece barrels..on the 88mm waffentragers there's much more of the barrel visible compared to seeing the same gun on a Tiger ll .

Mate that loading system sounds like a total nightmare 😳...it's perfect 😆 🤣

[Wardukw]

So, basically the same as gun used on
Elefant, Nashorn and Jagdpanther stuck into a casemate on a Pzkpw III. That'll be fun seeing as the IV based Nashorn had a big open top superstructure and it couldn't carry enough ammunition.

Basically yes Jon but worse as the Stug I'd fully enclosed 😆
Unlike a normal Stug from what I can see the roof height looks higher than standard..with this gun that's not surprising at all 

On Nashorn the engine was relocated
to the centre of the chassis to allow for the open fighting compartment. The armour of the compartment was a reassuring 30mm thick.

Yep ..dead true...looking at the pic of this thing tho..the engine is still in the original position making the balance problems even worse 😁
Honestly don't know what the hell these dudes were thinking 🤔 🙄

[kerick]

What about a rear blade to dig in for the recoil. Like a SP artillery gun. Not useful on the move but good in a prepared position. Just to add to the bad idea part.

[Wardukw]

😆 🤣 😂.....oh that's a bad idea ...hmmmm 💡 🤔 😅

[kerick]

Do it, you know you want to.......

[jcf]

PAK 43 in Nashorn with horizontally sliding breechblock.
You cannot view this attachment.

PAK 43 on carriage with vertically sliding breechblock.
You cannot view this attachment.
Use the vertically sliding block and have the rounds dropped in from above using an endless chain manually cranked "bucket" system. The buckets also act as a loading tray and a guide for the fired cases to be ejected out of the rear of the casemate via a port.

It would be suitably overcomplicated
and very German.

Jon what you see in the second pic isn't a PAK 43 ..what ya see is a KWK 43 ...literally ripped out of a King Tiger or Hunting Panther and ground mounted .
The breach is a dead give away ...weapons of pure desperation bud .
I've been taking a gander at several waffentragers ..Krupp..Alket and I've noticed one thing ..the length of the guns overall ...the gun mantles are extremely long ..alot longer than those on the tanks .
What I think they did was take a standard length gun and just move the whole thing forward ..you can see it best on the 2 piece barrels..on the 88mm waffentragers there's much more of the barrel visible compared to seeing the same gun on a Tiger ll .

Mate that loading system sounds like a total nightmare 😳...it's perfect 😆 🤣

That makes it even better, seeing as they already rotated the breech.
🤣

As to traverse and elevation. Gun fixed ala the S-Tank, traverse by slewing the tank with the tracks and elevation via dozer blade like "lifts" mounted on the front and rear. Rotate the front one down to raise the nose or the rear one down to lower the nose. The rear one also having a recoil compensating function as suggested by Ken. All hydraulic, of course. Kit can help you engineer that bit.
😉

[PR19_Kit]

All hydraulic, of course. Kit can help you engineer that bit.
😉

Yep, not a problem, sounds like a perfect solution to me. 

[Wardukw]

Oh mumma        .
I'm surrounded my complete nuttas ...Jon being the worst at the moment. ..followed very closely by Ken in second 🤔 👀 😀

Of course now you terrors have me thinking of the design in my head and now im trying to think of the front jacks could be turned into a one piece unit so it could also be used as a ram or a dozer blade sort of deal ..just like the back one 
Oh I hate you guys 🤣