Kamov Ka-239 "Haggard"

[Ollie]

Ok, but where's the rocket engine, eh?

 

[BlackOps]

Imagine being blown to hell by a weapon supplied by the "Dream Girl" munitions factory!    


Jeff G.

[John Howling Mouse]

Ollie: The rocket nozzle is capped with that little plug you see aft.  I was going to put a nozzle of some kind on it (would help it look ungainly and ugly) but I wondered if the aft venturi end is already big enough (about a scale foot in diameter) for a rocket's aperture?  Maybe I'll still throw some ugly nozzle on it, though.  Hmm...1:200 Hasegawa Space Shuttle???  Or one of the attitude rockets from a Starfury???

It actually makes me think of some kind of futuristic tactical nuke.  

Jeffry: Thanks.  Knew you'd realize the parts source right away!  

Black Ops: Don't tempt me to make "Dream Girl" decals for the "Pink Group Build"!!!    

[elmayerle]

JHM, if the rocket's going to be on the rails on the helicopter, a plugged nozzle is perfectly fine - it keeps crud out of the rocket motor and it holds the ignitor properly in place for firing (can you tell I've worked with some military solid-fuel rocket motors? *G*).  If you really want to ugly it up, a cable running to the plug for the firing signal would add "something".

[John Howling Mouse]

JHM, if the rocket's going to be on the rails on the helicopter, a plugged nozzle is perfectly fine - it keeps crud out of the rocket motor and it holds the ignitor properly in place for firing (can you tell I've worked with some military solid-fuel rocket motors? *G*).  If you really want to ugly it up, a cable running to the plug for the firing signal would add "something".

Thanks.  Was thinking about a cable but didn't know what it would be used for.
Heh, heh, now I know.  So a cable from the plug along the body of the rocket and up to the pylon on the helo's winglet?

[elmayerle]

Well, you'd definitely have a cable going to the plug on the rocket nozzle and if there was any kind of guidance "hand off" you'd likely have another one going to a quick-disconnect electronic connector on the missile.

[John Howling Mouse]

Uh, was that "cut the red wire and leave the blue wire intact" or "cut the blue wire and leave the red one intact" sir?

Can you draw me a quick diagram or direct me to an appropriate website?

Aren't you glad I have a desk-job?

:dum:  :dum:  :dum:  

[elmayerle]

Okay, I'll sketch something up and post it or email it to you.  I do have your email address at home, don't I?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Uh, was that "cut the red wire and leave the blue wire intact" or "cut the blue wire and leave the red one intact" sir?

Can you draw me a quick diagram or direct me to an appropriate website?

Aren't you glad I have a desk-job?

:dum:  :dum:  :dum:

Barry,

To expand on what Evan will probably post here after I do is to clarify that for your weapons whether they be free fall or guided/unguided rocket powered projectiles, there is a need for ignition of the rocket motor, arming of the weapon, activation of the weapon sensor/seeker to acquire and destroy the target. 

Even free fall gravity bombs require some kind of an input to either arm the weapon or render the weapon safe and prevent it from detonating.  Some bomb fuzes require nothing more than an arming wire that can be selectively released from the fuze at the time of the weapons release or it can remain with the bomb to prevent it from arming and detonating when jettisoned. 

For more exotic fuzing and arming systems, there are actual cable connections to the weapon that provide data to the weapon before it is released, this is not uncommon with LASER and Electro-Optical guided weapons that need to be told what LASER Pulse Code they need to be looking for on the target that is being marked for destruction to cuing the weapons seeker in the EO weapon to lock-on and guide to a specific window, door, or vent in the target being attacked.  If you take the standard Mk80 series of free fall bombs, you will see that there are three cavities on the bomb body; the nose fuze well which can be covered with a ballistic cap to allow the weapon to penetrate marginally hardened targets, a tail fuze well for the same purpose and for the attacking aircraft to select either the nose or tail fuze prior to release of the weapon depending on whether the pilot has decided that the target should be hit with an instant fuze or one that has a specific delay to allow penetration before detonation.  Similar fuzing features are also present on all other bombs from WWII/Korean war era weapons to the present.  As mentioned earlier, there is a third well located on the Mk80 series weapons between the mounting lugs that is part of the internal cable interface between both fuze wells.  This is an optional use item depending on the types of fuze being used on the weapon to tie in the nose and tail fuzes for use against specific targets. 

For the other air to surface weapons there is also the need to program flight and position data prior to launch to establish where on the earth the weapon is at the time of launch to allow it to compute the course to the target.  This is especially true for the cruise missiles and other long range stand-off attack weapons that are used for beyond line of sight attacks that allow the carrier aircraft to launch the weapon and depart the area without having to be detected and engaged by air defense weapons. 

Air to air weapons depending on their range would also require some kind of data interface to allow the seeker to be cued to the target or to provide some kind of general target information for the weapon prior to launch towards the target.  Some of these weapons also require additional steering instructions in the form of continuous wave RADAR illumination or a mid-course update via data-link to the launching aircraft. 

If you are to place cables on your missiles, the primary link would be somewhere in what you have determined to be the missile control section which would in most cases be either ahead of the warhead or directly behind it.  The reason for this is the consolidation of the electronics into one location to allow the different tasks such as activation of the seeker, arming the warhead, and ignition of the rocket motor.  consolidation in one section allows for fewer cable troughs and the added susceptibility to broken wires or loose connections during handling and loading of the weapons on to the aircraft by the ground crew. 

[elmayerle]

Jeffry's got the matter coverred pretty thoroughly.  All rocket-propelled weapons, whether guided or unguided, are going to need a cable to the ignitor in the rocket nozzle plug (I can go into rather detailed speciifics here, but that's not necessary).  In addition, guided weapons will need the second cable he mentioned to where ever the electronics are.  Air-breathing missiles (air-launched cruise-missiles mainly) will need at least one connection for both the guidance and for the launch command that fires up their engine and extende their wings (ramjet-powered msisiles like Meteor are launched like rockets for all practical purposes since they have a booster rocket motor in them to bring them up to teh speed a ramjet will function at).  For helicopters, most of these cables would be in the open from the pylon to the weapon while fast jets generally have most, if not all of them, within the pylon (this also makes them a tad safer from incoming "material".  IF you still need a sketch or two, I'll be glad to see what I can do.

[John Howling Mouse]

Holy crap, it's high school physics all over again and I'm failing miserably!  

Thanks, guys.  From your text, I will sketch something and see if it meets the need.

[anthonyp]

So, um.... any progress on this?  I ask that to satisfy my need for post Halloween horrors.

[John Howling Mouse]

Nope, no real progress on this as I've been busy with "real life" stuff (job and house, mostly).

Real life sucks, sometimes.

And I'm on call this weekend.  

I did buy some kind of little Tamiya flak gun set.  It's probably all wrong but I'm going to mount some of the 20mm cannons on the stubby winglets along with other stuff.  This thing will be so overloaded it would never get off the ground in real life.  

I'm just not sure how one would best feed rounds into this kind of gun on a winglet pylon (?).

[John Howling Mouse]

It's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!!

And, uglier than ever.  

After the first sanding, I was so pleased with how easily the Bondo putty reduced to just the gap-filling required amount that I gladly schplotzed on a second coat of putty tonight.  You can see some of the sanding "tools" I use:

- the Bondo glazing putty (better than sex!)
- 3-grit fingernail file
- the blessed toothpick for getting putty into tight spots
- masking tape to protect adjacent areas (reduces total sanding time and keeps your raised details intact)
- wet sandpaper wrapped around a credit card to get into tight spots (censored from the image so you guys don't go using my Visa to buy models!)
- my poor-man's home-made version of a "Flexi-File" ™ made from a u-shaped piece of MDF (there's simply a slot in each arm of the "U" that I use to tape the sandpaper strip into place)

[cthulhu77]

Gotta love that Bondo !!!  That is turning out to be a cool looking fugly chopter !