Miravelin-2000

[Tophe]

I have found again my old Mirage 2000 model already built and painted (in 1990?) , and to deserve a place in my collection now , she needed some originality added... Thanks once more to JHM for inspiring us all.

SERIOUSLY: WHY this T-tail addition?  There MUST be a reason!  
Uh... What if were revealed the French/Saudi talks that leaded to the 1986 order? I tell you (shht, commercial secret ):
- Look! Our Mirage-2000 is far better because no tailplane! Less drag thus more speed and range, less weight thus less take-off run and cost! The very best in the World!
- a supersonic fighter needs tailplane...
- No! We have invented better! French Delta-Wing!
- it does not work alone, we remember the British Javelin...
- No! It was so stupid! Hey: same designers as the Tornado, so bad! Look at the Mirage III victories over Israel!
- an enemy plane of the Arabic people?
- No! No, uh... We, uh... We have a Miravelin-2000, uh, probably, and uh...
- 40 years after the Javelin? and will you present us a Miranado-VG in 2025?
- No, VG does not work either!
- not yet for you... And our conclusion is: Goodbye Froggy, Welcome Tornado.

[NARSES2]

It kind of suits it Tophe - I like it

Chris

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

That's funny...

When I was working on my Wilde Weasel Mirage 2000, I thought about such a triangular T-tail, not for the direction controle, but as an electronic antenna, like the An-71



And I was thinking about a triangular antenna because of a model of a russian drone I saw few years later...


But I thing the Mirage 2000 is very ugly with such a T-Tail!    

[Tophe]

It is probably a better justification you are right. But it would have been difficult to post a new topic with this title:

Or should have I said "Mirajov-2000" or "Mirajin-2000" or "Mirajyev-2000" or "Mirajhoy-2000"? (Mirajsky-2000 sounds more Polish, Mirajich-2000 sounds more Yugoslavian)

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

     

Does anyone speak russian?? What's the Russain word for "Mirage" in French??

[John Howling Mouse]

     

Does anyone speak russian?? What's the Russain word for "Mirage" in French??

Why, the Russian-French equivalent would be "Le Mirage" of course:

[Tophe]

Does anyone speak russian?? What's the Russain word for "Mirage" in French??

I wrote Mirage (French prononciation) just with Cyrillic letters as a joke, ignoring how the French word Mirage translate in Russian.

I have learnt Russian during 3 years at school and I still have a dictionnary. As you asked, I hace checked, and the translation answer is: exactly as I wrote it! It seems the Russian deserts do not produce this illusion phenomenon called mirage, so local people have not built a word of their own for that, and they have taken the word from us French (or like us from Arabic or some African language, I don't know).

Though, some English-speaking children may pronounce our letters "Mirage" as "Mayreydzhee" so Moscow/Vladivostok may be closer to Paris/Calais than London/Dover somehow...

[elmayerle]

Wasn't there a study for a navalized Mirage in the late 1950's that added a T-tail because more and more defined control authority was needed for shipboard landings?  I seem to remember seeing something about it in the Docavia book.

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

Though, some English-speaking children may pronounce our letters "Mirage" as "Mayreydzhee" so Moscow/Vladivostok may be closer to Paris/Calais than London/Dover somehow...

   

"j'en étais sur!!!"


But for a country so big, I think the Russian prefer the... Mirage 4000 !!!



... hey!!
I've just an idea!! What if a White Russia after the 1927 Revolution?? For example, a Soviet Russia for the West part of the old Rodina, and a White Russia for the Eastern part of the country??
The same thing that China vs Taiwan, but with two Russian Union, one Soviet , the other still Imperial...
With such a configuration, and when you think about the good relationship between the old Imperial Russia and France, it's easy to imagine that the New Imperial Russia needs a good modern interceptor to protect itself against the new Soviet Su-27...

And the Mirage 4000 is just the plane needed!! Of course, a T-tail AWACS version of the Mirage 4000 will be build for ImpRuss AF use only...

[anthonyp]

That looks kinda cool!  Give it some French Navy decals and a tail-hook, and call it a day.  

   

[Tophe]

a T-tail AWACS version of the Mirage 4000

I have read somewhere that the Dassault engineers wondered why the US fighters were featuring double-fin (F-14/15) as they say there was no need, till they need place enough for electronic devices and antenna and regretted to have a single fin... I have seen the Antonov above had a single fin, but would your Mirrage-4000 AWACS have one or two, to support? Twin-fin Mirage 4000, nice...  

[Tophe]

- I made a mistake, sorry: the Miravelin Mk.2000 was a plane of the past, BUT engineers told me yesterday we have what the Saudi Arabian leaders actually need! Tail-less VG!
- why?
- Hey: the MiG-21 have lost a battle, right?
- alas...
- Now the far-improved MiG-2001 will won, changing all!
- Mikoyan-i-Gurevich?
- No! Mirage vG!

- and you won't sell it to the other side?
- Not me!
- Your company?
- uh... if this is ever done, it would be for balance and peace, not to crush you!
- go away.
- And it would be an auction system, if 100 copies are ordered by your opponent, you can buy them at double-price, preventing their delivery!
- go away.
- Not double, say +50% okay? Rather fair!
And the question is: why, with such French commercial wiseness, Tornadoes have been ordered, instead of Mirage 2000/2001/4000?...

[John Howling Mouse]

The image in the 3:00 position confuses me: where does the rest of the inner wingroot go when fully retracted?  Is there sufficient room in that part of the fuselage for the engine AND the wingroot glove, etc. like on the Tornado?

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

And the question is: why, with such French commercial wiseness, Tornadoes have been ordered, instead of Mirage 2000/2001/4000?...

And don't forget our great Mirage 4000-5 and our secret fighter Mirage 4000 Balzac...
The biggest VTOL fighter in the world!!



How could the Tornado strike back?? hum??? héhéhéhé!!  

[Tophe]

Wasn't there a study for a navalized Mirage in the late 1950's that added a T-tail because more and more defined control authority was needed for shipboard landings?  I seem to remember seeing something about it in the Docavia book.

Great memory, dear: I had completely forgotten. Checking, I found it again: Mirage V project of 1957 (no relation to the electronic-less III that was named 5 in the 1960s), page 287 of Volume I, Docavia Nr28. With arrester hook and a sweep tailplane (not exactly delta like mine).
Thanks!