Trainers With Teeth and COIN Group Build

[Mossie]

The Airfix 1/72 Jet Provost/Strikemaster kit is due out again soon.  It was fairly popular in the real world with nations on a budget but still has plenty of possibilities.  Argentina maybe, before the Junta got in?

[anthonyp]

I checked with Ian, Nev and Jeff since they had broached the GB idea originally and we have decided to let this idea go to the next Official GB poll (although I will personally vote for the LSR again  ).

If it doesn't get voted in as an Official GB at that time, we will open it as an unofficial one.  So keep those kits ready.

Huh?  This thing's on track to be on the GB poll after the Handley-Page one get's up there, October at the earliest.

You want to run an unofficial one in the meantime, go for it, have fun!  Post in-progress builds in the Workbench section and completed entries in this thread to keep interest up.

[Mossie]

Just seen this model of a CAC CA31 jet trainer, nice looking build.  After Thorvics post on the CA23 thread about Uncle Les Resins, I looked them up on the net & the only model I could find was this one.



Original article here
http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/Reviews/raaf/ca-31.htm

It'd make a nice build for this GB, if you can get hold of one.

[ysi_maniac]

Lovely model. Thanks for posting!

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Since this proposed group build deals with Counter Insurgency and such, I was thinking that maybe we should combine the "COIN" group build that was proposed by Rallymodeler with the "Trainers With Teeth" group build that was proposed by Ian Hunter Gatherer since both are on a similar subject.

Would that be acceptable?

[Weaver]

Seems like a good idea to me, since it then allows "light-cargo" types like Cessna Caravans, Do-28s etc, that arn't, strictly-speaking, trainers as such, but which are still in the spirit of an aircraft adapted to the light attack role from some other primary purpose.

Maybe some proper defintion of COIN and Trainers is need though, otherwise you could argue that a Jaguar E taking out a terrorist hideout with an AS-30L from 20,000ft was "trainer COIN".

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Seems like a good idea to me, since it then allows "light-cargo" types like Cessna Caravans, Do-28s etc, that arn't, strictly-speaking, trainers as such, but which are still in the spirit of an aircraft adapted to the light attack role from some other primary purpose.

Should we set it up for a vote?

Maybe some proper defintion of COIN and Trainers is need though, otherwise you could argue that a Jaguar E taking out a terrorist hideout with an AS-30L from 20,000ft was "trainer COIN".

Would it count if it were a two seat Jaguar?   I have to agree with you on that.  It would be a stretch of the imagination if you are building a standard fighter/attack aircraft and claiming it was performing a counter-insurgency mission.  While in real life that may have been the case (F-100 and F-4 Fast FAC), I think it would be best to try and steer away from conventional combat aircraft for this group build and focus on things with a seating capacity for two or more passengers (crew).  It may be possible to stretch the scope of the build by using earlier period aircraft in modern settings such as the F-51 Mustang and F-82 Twin Mustang or other period aircraft involved in recent conflicts.  I wonder if Brian could get in on this with a spatted SE-5 fitted with a few modern weapons?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Trainers with Teeth Group Build (proposed by Ian the Hunter-Gatherer)

COIN Build (proposed by Rallymodeler)

Since these two proposed group builds are similar in scope would it be wise to merge these two into one group build or leave them as separate proposals? 

You can read through both group build proposals before you make your decision.

[Spey_Phantom]

well, to me, armed trainers and CION aircraft are exactly the same thing.
most or all CION aircraft are infact armed derivatives of trainers (such as the PC-7/9 & T-37)

so yes, merge the builds 

[kitnut617]

Although what Nils says is true, the two do have a number of aircraft that would work well in both GB's, there are a number of COIN (COunter INsurgence) aircraft that haven't been trainers that I'm aware of,  A-26 Invader, AD-1,2,3,4 Skyraider, DH Hornet, Beaufighter, Brigand, even Avro Lincolns I think (last four in Burma), come to mind, also a number of helicopters.  But if the title of the GB was modified to cover all aspects, I would say yes to a merge.

Robert

[Mossie]

How about a qualifier on the lines of 'second line, support & obselete aircraft modified for front line warfare'?

Second line covers aircraft like the Pucara which are purpose built for the COIN role, support covers trainers, transport & cargo aircraft, obeslete covers any aircraft used well outside the state of the art of the timeframe chosen (which could include modern aircraft in a future war I suppose).

[philp]

So, with this definition, do gunships like my Gunvan idea qualify?

Seems to be moving well away from the original intent of the Trainers with Teeth idea but if it gets more people to support it (ie, vote for it) then the more the merrier I guess.

[philp]

Really makes no difference to me as I will be working on my Chipmunk before the GB gets a chance to be voted in.
We have a Regional in Sept and I am hoping to have a few whiffs on the tables.

[AeroplaneDriver]

I think if we kept them seperate there would be so much overlap that each would lose participation.  A merge sounds good to me.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Trainers with Teeth Group Build (proposed by Ian the Hunter-Gatherer)

COIN Build (proposed by Rallymodeler)

Since these two proposed group builds are similar in scope would it be wise to merge these two into one group build or leave them as separate proposals? 

You can read through both group build proposals before you make your decision.

The poll booth is now closed to any further voting.  With the majority of 22 votes for the merge and 1 against the merge, the masses have spoken and I shall merge the two group build proposals.   

The new group build proposal will be titled "Trainers With Teeth and COIN Group Build"

Has anyone come up with suitable prize or prizes for this group build? 

Will it be model kits or something else?