Westland Whirlwind

[The Wooksta!]

I may give it a bash as I've some two stage Merlins that are wrong for Mosquitos but may well look okay on something else...

I still like the radials idea, but I don't have many Aeroclub Taurus cowlings and probably not enough to do this.

[NARSES2]

I've been perusing Secret Projects and it's been discovered recently that there really were plans to re-engine the Whirlwind with Merlins.  I'ts always been accepted (me included) that the Whirlwind was too tightly designed around the Peregrine, but it seems that it was simple logistics that prevented a Merlin powered version being built. 

That's interesting Mossie. I've always read the same thing plus Petter's intransigence. "Not over my dead body" sort of thing.

I've found I have two ex Frog Hornet wings in the large parts box, so I'm tempted to do a late Whirlwind PR in low level pink with my third Airfix kit.

However first I need to look for some Taurus engines and cowlings.

[Mossie]

Chris, I've got a pair of Twin Wasps from a denfunct Dakota if you want them, either for a later model or as stand instead for the Taurus, no one will know if you don't tell 'em.

[PR19_Kit]

...... or as stand instead for the Taurus, no one will know if you don't tell 'em.

As if we would............ 

[NARSES2]

Chris, I've got a pair of Twin Wasps from a denfunct Dakota if you want them, either for a later model or as stand instead for the Taurus, no one will know if you don't tell 'em.

Thanks mate, but I've just had a rummage in the box of spare engine/cowling bits and I've got some twin row radials in there. They are obviously a pair, even I can work that out, so most likely Wasps given my build history. So may well go for a latter version unless I hide them under a cowling and use the early war high demarcation camouflage 

Thanks Mossie 

[jcf]

The slimmer cowlings of the Hornet Merlin 130/131 installation
would look plausible, the two aircraft had the same wingspan, the
Whirlwind being 3' 3" shorter in length.

[The Wooksta!]

Aye, but that's if they're decent representations.  The Frog ones aren't.

[Mossie]

OT, have you ever put a Merlin 130 on Spitfire Lee?

[The Wooksta!]

I don't think the cowling would look much different.  Besides which, RR got the engine so slim by removing all the ancilliaries and placing them elsewhere.  DH got away with that in the Hornet as they were designed around those engines and the ancilliaries could go in the wings.  I've a feeling you'd need considerable redesign to get them elsewhere in a Spitfire.

[NARSES2]

The slimmer cowlings of the Hornet Merlin 130/131 installation
would look plausible, the two aircraft had the same wingspan, the
Whirlwind being 3' 3" shorter in length.

Yup I actually tried the Hornet wings against the Whirlwind and was surprised at that. And no I'm not doing it they look a tad odd.

Aye, but that's if they're decent representations.  The Frog ones aren't.

Very much so Lee, which is why perhaps I could just say that they are "Merlins" and not be that specific ?

[jcf]

Why not, as it's doubtful that a Westland designed cowling assembly would
look exactly like one designed at De Havilland. 

[Weaver]

According to BSP, Roy Fedden at Bristol was pushing for a radial-engined Whirlwind, but it doesn't say which engine.

If all you wanted was a supportable replacement for the Peregrine, rather than a radical increase in power, then you could fit Bristol Perseus engines. These put out 930hp compared to the Peregrine's 885hp and were 115lb lighter as well. You'd have lost a bit of speed to the increased drag, but another 230lb of armour/fuel/warload would have been useful, as would the increased damage tolerance of an air-cooled radial in the ground-attack role, which is where the Whirlwind ended up.

[rickshaw]

I put Hercules on my Wirly-Wirly TF.III build.  Appreciably heavier but a great deal more powerful.

Specifications (Peregrine I)

Data from Lumsden [9]
General characteristics

    Type: 12-cylinder supercharged liquid-cooled 60-degree Vee aircraft piston engine
    Bore: 5 inches (127 mm)
    Stroke: 5.5 inches (140 mm)
    Displacement: 1,296 in3 (21.2 L)
    Length: 73.6 in (1,869 mm)
    Width: 27.1 in (688 mm)
    Height: 41.0 in (1,041 mm)
    Dry weight: 1,140 lb (517 kg)
[...]
Performance

    Power output: 885 hp (660 kW) at 3,000 rpm, +9 psi boost
    Specific power: 0.68 hp/in3 (31.1 kW/L)
    Compression ratio: 6:1
    Power-to-weight ratio: 0.77 lb/hp

[Source]

Specifications (Hercules II)

Data from Lumsden[5]
General characteristics

    Type: 14-cylinder, two-row, supercharged, air-cooled radial engine
    Bore: 5.75 in (146 mm)
    Stroke: 6.5 in (165 mm)
    Displacement: 2,360 in³ (38.7 L)
    Length: 53.15 in (1,350 mm)
    Diameter: 55 in (1,397 mm)
    Dry weight: 1,929 lb (875 kg)
[...]
Performance

    Power output:
    1,272 hp (949 kW) at 2,800 rpm for takeoff
    1,356 hp (1,012 kW) at 2,750 rpm at 4,000 ft (1,220 m)
    Specific power: 0.57 hp/in³ (26.15 kW/l)
    Compression ratio: 7.0:1
    Specific fuel consumption: 0.43 lb/(hp•h) (261 g/(kW•h))
    Power-to-weight ratio: 0.7 hp/lb (1.16 kW/kg)

[Source]

[jcf]

According to BSP, Roy Fedden at Bristol was pushing for a radial-engined Whirlwind, but it doesn't say which engine.

If all you wanted was a supportable replacement for the Peregrine, rather than a radical increase in power, then you could fit Bristol Perseus engines. These put out 930hp compared to the Peregrine's 885hp and were 115lb lighter as well. You'd have lost a bit of speed to the increased drag, but another 230lb of armour/fuel/warload would have been useful, as would the increased damage tolerance of an air-cooled radial in the ground-attack role, which is where the Whirlwind ended up.

The Gloster F.9/37 prototype L7779 was fitted with 1,050 hp Taurus T-S(a) engines and had a top
speed of 360mph, L8002 had 885hp Pergrines and was 30mph slower.
So chances are that a similar installation on the Whirlwind would have had a positive effect.

Recently I saw parts of a paper by Fedden that included comparison drawings of a Bristol radial
installation, I forget which engine, and a Napier Dagger installation, the radial had a lower
surface area and lower drag. I'll try to remember where I saw it.

[Martin H]

As many of the "old hands" on here are well aware, I have a "thing" for the Whirlwind..................even more so when whiffing is involved.

In mark order.
Finnish export Mk I


The NF mk I


The Mk II (spot the other westland whiff in the back ground)


The PR II


The Sea Whirlwind TF III (the one that started this Whirlwind obsession)


The Sea Whirlwind NF IV


And the twin boomer for a long past Tophe GB..........


As you may be able to tell these are all fairly low rez pics. Giving an idea how long ago these builds were made.
These were posted on this thread about 8 years ago, but the links are long dead, since I told Photobucket to go forth and........................