What name for the TSR.2?

[waynos]

Now that I have my Airfix TSR.2's on order (my I left it late, I was getting worried I wouldn't get any!) I am faced with the lovely prospect of doing what so many have done before me and building models of vatious operational TSR.2's.

Now, I am sure the TSR.2 designation would not have been carried over into service any more than MRCA was and I want an authentic sounding name for the bird.

I have seen models christened Eagle, is there any reasoning or backstory behind this? I would be interested to know though, as a name, it doesn't seem to fit in with the RAF for me, maybe a backstory will change my mind.

Given that the RAF christened the MRCA as the Tornado and the previous operational type from the same firm was called the lightning, might not the TSR 2 have become the 'BAC Storm S.1' or 'BAC Thunderbolt S.1' or even just 'BAC Thunder S.1'? I feel that, just as with the Buccaneer, The S.1 designation would have been used, at least until the RAF stopped using nuclear weapons and the upgraded version at this point might well have been the GR.2 or whatever number we are up to.

Another thought is that the RAF might have called it the 'Panther' as I have a book dating from 1970 that gives this as the RAF's preferred name for the MRCA.


Any other thoughts or suggestions? Or god forbid, does anyone actually KNOW what the RAF wanted to call it?

[Captain Canada]

Everybody around here seem to call it "phoenix' or 'Eagle', so I'm going with that.....I think we'll have to have a vote or somat in the end ! Unless we're all going to call her different things !

Mine needs a CF- number as well

[waynos]

Ooh, I don't want to upset anybody  

But the question has been playing on my mind 'cos I can't have an operational version without a name.

That about official files stating the name was to be Eagle was just the reason I was asking, but I hope whoever was considering the name Velvet got a good slapping!  

[Spellbinder99]

I agree with Wooksta. If the process had never got far enough along that a name had not even been put up, then you could call the thing what you like. But as Eagle seems to be what WAS chosen then that is what I will refer to it as.

The name Phoenix may have been an emotative choice when campaigning for the kit, the phoenix has too many connotations to do with crashing and burning to have ever been a starter.

The one thing that does get silly is when people say that it can't be called the Eagle due to confusion with the F-15 Eagle. Seeing that the TSR-2 would have entered service at least 10 years before the F-15 that is a no contest as obviously Macair would have chosen a different name if a major combat aircraft type in service with the RAF, USAF and other air forces allready had that name.

Cheers

Tony

[waynos]

Cool! I thought of a name that English Electric was considering. Still, it wasn't exactly hard after the Lightning, was it.    

Are any of the files, or reports, that mention 'Eagle' available on the net anywhere? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'd just love to see something like that. Also, could you possibly point me in the direction of these previous discussions as it would be interesting to see other peoples points of view?

I agree that denying the name Eagle because of the F-15 would be just silly, the F-15 didn't even fly until 1972 by which time the Eagle S.1 (or B.1 or GR.1, I CAN'T DECIDE EVEN ON THIS!) would have already been in service with several squadrons and well established as the owner of the name. Thats why one of my choices was Thunderbolt, it would have gone with lightning and the A-10 was still years in the future at the time, so while my reasoning was right, it seems my choice of name was miles off

edit; Apologies for being dumb, I've just noticed this sites search facility, will try that.

[Geoff_B]

I agree that denying the name Eagle because of the F-15 would be just silly, the F-15 didn't even fly until 1972 by which time the Eagle S.1 (or B.1 or GR.1, I CAN'T DECIDE EVEN ON THIS!) would have already been in service with several squadrons and well established as the owner of the name. Thats why one of my choices was Thunderbolt, it would have gone with lightning and the A-10 was still years in the future at the time, so while my reasoning was right, it seems my choice of name was miles off

Waynos

The Thunderbolt was chosen for the F-155T winner the FD-3 as it would be the heavy all weather interceptor to complemnt the Lightning day fighter.

TSR.2 would have had the designation GR for ground attack/recon. The B prefix was meant for full bombers not dtrike aircraft. The S for Strike prefix is more a naval classification. The Buccaneers got labled with S as they were ex-Naval aircraft. If the RAF had got their own original land based version then that may have had a GR prefix.

Cheers

Geoff B B)  

[waynos]

Thank you, I learned something else new today, marvellous! ^_^

Hmmm, I would love a Fairey Thunderbolt F.1 model, has a lovely ring to it!

[Captain Canada]

Hey Wooksta ! I never thpught of that...how much it would piss people off that the 'original' Eagle pre-dated the 'real' one by ten years......awesome !

Canadair CF-155 Eagle ?

Hehehe.......

[Geoff_B]

Thank you, I learned something else new today, marvellous! ^_^

Hmmm, I would love a Fairey Thunderbolt F.1 model, has a lovely ring to it!

Should i tell him or would somebody else like the honours ?

[XV107]

Does anyone have the file reference number for the TSR2 name, by any chance?

I only ask because it will help top put to bed a long-standing rumour about the name within certain RAF circles, namely that the TSR 2 would have been called the Claymore GR 1.

If it wasn't for the fact that a couple of the people who heard the supposed name were meant to join 237 OCU at Coningsby to convert to type, I'd have dismissed this, given the RAF's penchant for birds of prey names at the time (the F-111 as I've posted elsewhere was to be called the Merlin). The two gents in question are both interested to find out whether or not 'Claymore' was just fanciful rumour, and if so, what the actual chosen name arrived at was. If the document(s) are in the PRO/National Archives, next time I'm down there I'll photocopy/digi camera the relevant bits and let them have copies so that they'll finally get the question answered!

[TsrJoe]

ill dig out the pro refs for the TSR.2's name and im them over, id be interested to note the file ref for the F.111K name as thats one i mustv missed, altho admittedly iv yet to access all the F.111 materiel there so mightv missed it

cheers, joe    

[XV107]

Thanks, Joe - look forward to hearing from you.

The reference you're after is AIR 20/11751 'F111: Naming'. It's quite interesting!