A-4 Skyhawk

elmayerle · July 28, 2008, 12:59:46 AM

*chuckle* It could be considered a "steal" from the Mikoyan Ye-6T/3 which added the rails for AA-2's on the tips and had to reduce the leading edge sweep on the outboard wing to do so. At least that's in the Warbird Tech book on the MiG-21.

GTX · October 10, 2008, 02:46:04 PM

I thought Israel had stopped using the A-4 years ago, but then I read this:

QuoteIsrael's Skyhawk Scandal
08-Oct-2008 14:55 EDT

McDonnell Douglas' A-4 Skyhawk, aka. "Scooter," has a long and storied career as a carrier-based attack aircraft with the US Navy. It's old enough that Sen. John McCain was flying one when he was shot down over North Vietnam. It also has a storied land-based career with the Israeli Air Force, however, which used it from late 1967 onward as a versatile attack aircraft with surprising air-air teeth. In one engagement during the 1973 Yom Kippur War, an Israeli A-4 Skyhawk found itself facing 3 MiG-21s. The maneuverable little Skyhawk turned on them and brought 2 of them down, and was reportedly on the 3rd Fishbed's tail when an IAF Mirage IIIC zipped through and blasted the MiG out of the sky. The A-4's surprising maneuverability was coupled with an equally surprising ability to take battle damage, but the type took heavy losses in the 1973 war: of 102 aircraft lost, 53 were Skyhawks.

Per mission losses in 1973 were just 0.6%, a lower figure than the previous 1970 War of Attrition with Egypt. Nevertheless, the writing was on the wall. When the F-16 was made available to Israel, the A-4s began to take a back seat. Some did participate in the 1982 Lebanon War, and one even scored a MiG-17 kill. By that time, however, squadron migrations to the F-16 had already begun, and 33 of the Skyhawks had been sold to Indonesia. By the mid 1990s almost all of Israel's fighter squadrons had migrated, and 2000-2001 saw a handful of Israeli Skyhawks sold to corporate operators in BAE and ATSI. A number of A-4E/H/N aircraft are currently stored at Ovda Air Base, and the "Flying Tigers" of 102 Squadron at Hatzerim Air Base still use their A-4Ns and 2-seat TA-4Js for advanced IAF pilot training.

These surviving aircraft require maintenance, which was being provided by the contractor Kanfei Tahzuka via Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). Unfortunately, the little plane that could appears to have finally met its match – thanks to a scandal that has grounded Israel's Skyhawk fleet...

Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz reported on Oct 5/08 that:

"TheMarker found that the contractor failed to conduct checks on the system responsible for maintaining the aircraft's altitude, as well as its exhaust and brakes systems. Moreover, when technicians found tire and wheel fractures, they were instructed to cover them with lubricant rather than mend the rifts."

It is, perhaps, a testament to the aircraft's ruggedness that no Skyhawk has yet been grounded, or suffered an accident, due to a safety malfunction. Nevertheless, the IAF isn't about to push its luck. The service conducted a surprise inspection of the maintenance facility following the media reports, and in early October 2008 IAF chief Maj. Gen. Ido Nehushtan grounded the Skyhawk fleet based on what they had found.

IAI says they have offered complete cooperation with the government since the matter was brought to their attention. The situation remains in limbo, with no reports as yet of charges laid, other punitive action, or the lifting of the flight ban.

(Source)

Shasper · October 10, 2008, 08:43:04 PM

QuoteI thought Israel had stopped using the A-4 years ago

Had the 2-seat Lavi been produced, the IAF's use of the Scoot would have ended eons ago, but it was not meant to be . . .

Shas

KJ_Lesnick · January 03, 2009, 08:15:55 AM

Would the A-4 if it had the longer cockpit like I recommended in previous posts (in a one seat variant, and in a twin-seat trainer with T-38 like spacing) to meet drag/range requirements, have had a nose just like the A-4C? Or would it have been either a little shorter longer?

K.J. Lesnick
BTW: The other thing I'm wondering is since the A-4C was the first to get the terrain following radar, the concept would have to be set-up so that it can be quickly changed to accomodate the system without a radical re-design of the nose or airframe.

GTX · June 27, 2009, 02:12:06 PM

Something interesting happenning over on HS: A twin engined Skyhawk by Giampiero Silvestri:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1244733405/Super+Scooter+in+progress
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1244819326/Twin+engine+Skyhawk

Regards,

Greg

DarrenP · August 03, 2009, 09:14:44 AM

2 other interesting Projects would be the
Skyhawk GA1 and Skyhawk GA2

used by the British Fleet air arm of the Centaur Batch 2 carriers
Engined with an Upgraded HS/RR Saphire the GA1 was equivilent of A4E and the GA2 was the equivilent of the A4M both armed with 30mm Aden cannon and the GA2's equipped with Maverick and Shrike ASM as well as the sidewinder.

dy031101 · August 03, 2009, 10:09:29 AM

Brazil is said to be upgrading their fleet of Skyhawks with a fire control radar and Derby air-to-air missile...... hum......

What if the British were still allowed to operate aircraft carrier back then, just that they had to make do with Centaur class and probably reconstructed Colossus class?

Would we have seen a fighter version of the Skyhawk much earlier? Like a Spey Skyhawk with Blue Fox and later Blue Vixen radar?

Aircav · August 03, 2009, 10:57:12 AM

Blue Vixen radar sounds good for the Scooter but I'm not sure about the Spey, it was a heavy engine.

Shasper · August 03, 2009, 03:10:11 PM

Why not the Adour?

DarrenP · August 03, 2009, 03:50:44 PM

Would say the A4 would have been the staple from late 60's to late 80's the Centaurs being small would have made a great aircraft and in line with Australian Navy and New zealand and Singapore airforces

dy031101 · August 04, 2009, 10:02:12 AM

Oh and if the A-4 + Centuar/Reconstructed-Colossus was a go (no need for the Harriers?), what would the Indians have been left with?

Aircav · August 04, 2009, 10:24:42 AM

Quote from: dy031101 on August 04, 2009, 10:02:12 AM
Oh and if the A-4 + Centuar/Reconstructed-Colossus was a go (no need for the Harriers?), what would the Indians have been left with?

F4D-1's

dy031101 · August 04, 2009, 10:27:49 AM

Quote from: Aircav on August 04, 2009, 10:24:42 AM
F4D-1's

I was wondering if the US might be reluctant to let India have anything that has anything to do with them......

Aircav · August 04, 2009, 01:04:24 PM

It seems that the Indians were interested in the Skyray.

DarrenP · August 05, 2009, 05:56:54 AM

Quote from: dy031101 on August 04, 2009, 10:02:12 AM
Oh and if the A-4 + Centuar/Reconstructed-Colossus was a go (no need for the Harriers?), what would the Indians have been left with?

Given the operating era would have been the late 60's early 70's and taking it the Centaur class in the RN was 8 ships 4 early ones built with an interim 5 degree angled flight deck and the 4 later ones built as Hermes was completed with the 6 degree angled flight deck.
My Alternate history is the 4 early ships would have become LPH's and the Later ones would have been used as ASW carriers the would still be able to operate Buccaneer but the RN put a Lmited strike package aboard copying the RAN with the Skyhawk. And going through the E & M models. I would say if BaE came up with the Sea Harrier as a Skyhawk replacement it would pull history back on track. Given that the Centaurs would be in need of replacement the Invincible class would have come about as their replacement.