Alternative Armour Thoughts

[ChernayaAkula]

^ Jaaaa, right!   

We do use "Rumpf" for aircraft fuselages and ship hulls (as well as the human trunk/torso), but a tank hull is a "Wanne" ("Wanne" is also the word used for a tub). "Rumpf" can also be used for tanks, but is less common.

[rickshaw]

  It wasn't until well after WWII that you see rear doors/ramps appear for exits.

Tell it to the Marines.

The LVT(3) and LVT(4) had a rear ramp. 

However they weren't intended to be used as APCs originally.  They were "Amphibious tractors."  The naughty Marines decided otherwise.   The ramps were for offloading cargo.   Interesting that their first purpose built APC had a bow ramp.

The US Army didn't use a rear entry/exit on a full tracked APC until the M44/M75.  The British didn't get one until much later.

[dy031101]

25TP

Length: 7300mm
Height: 2600mm
Width: 2000mm
Weight: 23-25t
Crew: 6
Main Gun: 1 x 75mm
Engine: 2 x 500hp
Projected Performance:
-   On Road 45km/h
-   Off Road 25km/h

[Arc3371]

Dy have you seen this?

http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=sv&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fodkrywca.pl%2Fpokaz_watek.php%3Fid%3D182824

[dy031101]

Have not  

(Banging head for being behind schedule)

Another Christie-drive tank (10TP/14TP)...... nice what-if fodder.

[dy031101]

I failed to notice that a T-28 was actually test-fitted with torsion bar suspension of the KV tank......



Incomplete "Artist Impression" (author unknown).  The tank looks super-cool from this angle.



Curiosity:

1. what was the first good suspension available to the Soviets after the T-28 enters production?

2. are the secondary turret gunners operating the turrets standing or seated?

[rickshaw]

Curiosity:

1. what was the first good suspension available to the Soviets after the T-28 enters production?

Define "good".   The Christie was excellent, for what it was intended to do as was the later torsion bar of the KV/JS series.

2. are the secondary turret gunners operating the turrets standing or seated?

IIRC they sit, on suspended seats rather like a bike saddle.

[Arc3371]

This one is interesting

[apophenia]

A view of the T-28's starboard machinegunner's position (and seat)
http://www.saunalahti.fi/ejuhola/7.62/t28_11.jpg

[dy031101]

Thanks for the pics.  

Define "good".   The Christie was excellent, for what it was intended to do as was the later torsion bar of the KV/JS series.

I was wondering which one of the two came first, but would the Christie suspension represent an improvement over the T-28's plunger spring system despite being meant for "cruiser tanks" rather than "infantry tanks" (which I am under the impression that the T-28 is closer to)?

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I wonder how powerful that 95mm gun is.

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Wikipedia claims that a later version of the T-29 (recall that it is the T-28 re-equipped with BT-type Christie suspension) was considered in competition against the T-34.  I wonder if its design had undergone any kind of evolution by then.

[rickshaw]

Thanks for the pics.  

Define "good".   The Christie was excellent, for what it was intended to do as was the later torsion bar of the KV/JS series.

I was wondering which one of the two came first, but would the Christie suspension represent an improvement over the T-28's plunger spring system despite being meant for "cruiser tanks" rather than "infantry tanks" (which I am under the impression that the T-28 is closer to)?

Christie's suspension predates the T28 IIRC.  However, adding Christie to an existing design is no mean feat because of the need to contain the springs in the sidewalls of the hull.  Nor is it necessarily suitable (or cheap!) for a medium "I" tank.  The "plunger" suspension was rather "hard", AIUI.  You could and they did try to put Christie on the T28 but not terribly successfully.   A torsion or even a leaf-spring would have worked well, as would have a Vickers "slow-mo".  All were contemporaneous with the T28.

[dy031101]

A torsion or even a leaf-spring would have worked well, as would have a Vickers "slow-mo".

Curiosity upon seeing the Panzer 38(t): would there be advantages of leaf-spring system with large road wheels over one with small roadwheels?

(Spin-off: playing World of Tanks last night gave me a bit of inspirations on steam tank ideas after having my T-28 working with a M6 Heavy...... not under the impression that leaf spring is known for high speeds, I still wonder if the suspension can be tweaked into having good speed potential)

[Mr.Creak]

I wonder how powerful that 95mm gun is.

Pretty good apparently.
Found this:
95mm F-39, based on 95mm F-28 experimental field gun. L/45 barrel, 13kg@630m/s HE or 11kg@750m/s AP.

Compares well with the German 88 L/56 (810 m/ sec 10.2 kg)

[rickshaw]

A torsion or even a leaf-spring would have worked well, as would have a Vickers "slow-mo".

Curiosity upon seeing the Panzer 38(t): would there be advantages of leaf-spring system with large road wheels over one with small roadwheels?

The main advantage of leaf spring systems was that they were (a) technically easy; (b) cheap and (c) worked. Large wheels offer lower rolling resistance than small wheels.  The problem is that leaf springs are easily damaged in combat and so are larger wheels.

[dy031101]

I wonder how powerful that 95mm gun is.

Pretty good apparently.
Found this:
95mm F-39, based on 95mm F-28 experimental field gun. L/45 barrel, 13kg@630m/s HE or 11kg@750m/s AP.

Compares well with the German 88 L/56 (810 m/ sec 10.2 kg)

What's T-28's turret ring size?

Just wonder if the T-34 could have taken the gun.

===================================================

The main advantage of leaf spring systems was that they were (a) technically easy; (b) cheap and (c) worked. Large wheels offer lower rolling resistance than small wheels.  The problem is that leaf springs are easily damaged in combat and so are larger wheels.

Continuing from the spin-off, can these advantages be equally applicable to countries other than Soviet Union?

As for leaf spring being easily damaged in combat...... would the problem be worse than, say, other systems like VVSS/HVSS?