potential RAF. 'what-if types ...

[elmayerle]

Ah,Aspin,the one I didn't know about.Well,I persoanlly have a strong dislike towards Cheney after he ordered all the tooling and die for the F-14 and its spares destroyed after he selected the Super Hornet,not to mention he cancelled the A-6F Intruder II,Anyway though..,Sounds good,now would the Aeronavale aircraft be compatable with the R.550 Magic and Super 530 missiles? I could see the Magic being carried,not so sure on the Super 530.Great replacement for the Crusaders though.

The selection of the F-18 over the F-14 was driven by BuAero of the Navy which had an animus toward Grumman and the F-14 stemming from Grumman refusing to swallow the cost of the government's screwup on the F-14 re-engining with the F110 that forced an engine re-design and drove the development costs rather higher (I can elaborate on this if any one's interested); the governemnt took them to court and lost big time which left a bad attitude in the bureaucracy toward Grumman.  The cancellation of the A-6F came from two things; the major problem was a bit of graft, it came out later, that brought P&W in as a second source for the F404s for the A-6F and the second problem was that Beoing-Wichita's all-new composite wing was tons stiffer than the old wing and shifted the stress loads all over the place.  The first problem became a problem due to differences in how P&W and GE built engines.  GE-built F404s have never stalled, but P&W-builts ones stalled on the test stand.  The government was looking for a way to dump P&W from building the F404 and, combined with the bad attitude toward Grumman, cancelling the A-6F was the simplest way to do so.

I won't say Cheney's totally blameless, but the vast majority of the blame belongs to the bureaucracy.

The F-14 could easily take the R.550 Magic on the Sidewinder rails and it would take a bit of adaption to fit Super 530s in place of Sparrows, but it wouldn't be a major effort, IMHO.

[XV107]

Another type - the Augusta AB205 (i.e. the UH-1D/H). Proposed by the Foreign Office (yes, really...) at about the time the Anglo-French helicopter deal was being negotiated.

Rejected by the MoD OR Branch, who naively assumed that the Anglo-French deal would see 50:50 collaboration over helicopter design between Westland and Aerospatiale, rather than the acquisition of two French designs and the Lynx...

Edit to add: and the F-86D. The US offered a wing of these in early 1956, and repeated the offer in early 1957, with the suggestion at this later meeting that the F-86Ds could be replaced by F-100s in due course.

[TsrJoe]

hiyas 'zen' re the types mentioned ...

DH.115 'Super Vampire', SR.177, Fairey Delta III, P.1154 Harrier, there are a few files at Kew on those ones too, and yip would definately be in a listing of 'project cancelled' types

the listing iv posted previously is an interim based upon those iv come across during other researches, others subsequently noted being the Rockwell Aero Commander for the RAF. Jetstream requirement, ex Laker DC.10 in place of the Tristar (cheers Dave)

if anyone has note of any further types submitted for evaulation feel free to add them

cheers, Joe

[Weaver]

The F-14 could easily take the R.550 Magic on the Sidewinder rails and it would take a bit of adaption to fit Super 530s in place of Sparrows, but it wouldn't be a major effort, IMHO.

Given that Super 530Ds have long-chord "strake" wings, they'd probably have to go on smaller versions of the Phoenix pallets.

[Spey_Phantom]

hold on a minute, i just found these on an FS2004 payware addon 

[Geoff]

I know in the 1980's the  Soviet Union offered the Su-27 to the RAF as green airframes when the Tornado fighters were delayed.

[Aircav]

I heard Ann Winterton MP speaking on Defence in Parliament the other day and she was asking why the RAF don't have any single or twin engined ground attack aircraft such as the Super Tucano in Afghanistan, so theres a whif for someone to do. 

[DarrenP]

The Blackhawk was looked at to Replace the Wessex in 72 & 60 sqns would have been interesting. Espically the interservice politics between the RAF & AAC as it would have been a great alternate to the Lynx AH9. They would have been built under liscence by westlands.

[Spey_Phantom]

ah, you mean the Westland/Sikorsky WS-70, ive actually seen a revell kit of that helicopter on a modelshow some time ago, regret the day i didnt buy it 

[DarrenP]

Yeap the WS70 now in service I think with the UAE she was trialled with the RTM engines used by the Apache & Merlin.

[alertken]

The Westland Affair caused PM Thatcher to lose 2 Cabinet ministers and shook her Administration, winter 1985/86. Westland was bankrupt: "had never struck me as well managed" Cabinet Minister G.Howe,Conflict of Loyalties,94,Mac,P462. An RAF transport Bid was in hand: Alan Bristow offered to take on the ongoing losses if a WG.30 variant was selected (WHIF/1). WHL joined the NH.90 team 9/85 (WHIF/2): (MBB+Aérospatiale, from 16/1/92 merged as:) Eurocopter Holding S.A., preferred by Minister Heseltine; Minister Brittan wanted UTC/Sikorsky licenced WS.70/RTM322 (WHIF/3). The target for both would-be saviours of WHL was RSa.AF: BAe. had won Saudi alYamamah, which was to include rotorcraft. MoD was also running AAC's attack Bid: MDC/Short's AH-64, (Textron)Bell/GEC AH-1W (WHIF/4), ATLAS/Marshall's Rooivalk (WHIF/5), (to be Eurocopter)/BAe.Tigre (WHIF/6), (FIAT)Agusta A129 Tonal (WHIF/7) in Joint European Helicopter (Co)(JEH), which bicycle WHL also joined.

The eventual outcome was that GKN bought out the UTC and FIAT shareholdings; the (image above) WS.70 test bed reverted to standard; Merlin HC.2 and Boeing/Westland/some work for Short's WH64 were bought by MoD; Saudi bought 75 Bo.105 for Iraq, and for RSa.AF 21 standard H-70 and 54 Aérospatiale types.

[alertken]

More choppers, RAF+FAA+AAC.

1951: US under MSP assigned 18 Bell HSL-1 to FAA. Cancelled, became Bristol T.191; cancelled, became Wessex HAS.1.
1959: Saro licenced Hiller XROE-1 Rotocycle; AAC evaluated G-APYF.
1961: Shorts licenced Hiller 12E as P.D.68 (in 1962 AB.47G was chosen for AAC), and FH.1100 as P.D.67 (Gazelle was chosen in 1965);
        BEAS was Sister Firm for Brantly B.2 (AB.47G won);
        Westland Helicopters Ltd licenced Hughes 269A (W/AB.47G won).
1961: WHL licenced Boeing-Vertol V.107/CH-47 as WG.1 (now, 2010, Boeing is exploring CH-47 assembly at Yeovil or at Fleetlands).
1965: for its LOH AAC preferred USArmy's choice, Hughes OH-6 Cayuse. Gazelle was imposed.

[alertken]

1942: Very Heavy v. Japan: Vickers-Armstrongs 441 (B-29). Warwick III (Windsor) and Lancaster IV (Lincoln) were selected.
1952: Valetta replacement: a bid to MSP was made for C-119C (RAE received one). Lapsed after Korean Armistice.
1957: DHC-4 Caribou was explored before Twin Pioneer was selected.
1959: Thor/Blue Streak transporter: Belfast was chosen, over MoS' preference for time-share C-133A.
1959: Hastings/Beverley replacement: Bristol T.208 Tyne/C-130E; deferred, for:
1963: NBMR4/OR.351. T.208 was rebid plus enhanced BAC T.222. Shorts bid P.D.71, licenced Breguet 941; HSAL offered local comfort to Dornier Do.31E, while competing and winning with HS.681.
1963: Shackleton replacement: BAC's promiscuity included back-licenced CL-44MR.
1973: as Vietnam-volume eased, DoD tried very hard indeed to kill (MRCA, to be) Tornado IDS, with lures separately constructed for FRG, Italy. The lead offer to UK was involvement in R&D and in production of (to be) McDonnell F-15A.

[KiwiZac]

More choppers, RAF+FAA+AAC.

1965: for its LOH AAC preferred USArmy's choice, Hughes OH-6 Cayuse. Gazelle was imposed.

I know this is a real zombie thread, but I'd love to know more about this one.

[McColm]

The C-160 as an alternative to the C-130, the British were given the go ahead to build them under license.