Everything you always wanted to ask...

[John Howling Mouse]

On WWII a/c, do cannon-armed (as opposed to machine gunned) fighters with wing-mounted guns always have ejector ports for the spent brass casings in the lower wing?

And with propeller-spinner mounted cannon, where do the spent shells go?

I know weight is always an issue but did any WWII a/c have any kind of inner wing collection pot to retain empty brass casings?  I know they'd be pretty hot when first ejected but most metals were quite valuable during the war.

[Ollie]

On fighters with nose-mounted cannons, no one ever knew what really happened to the ejected brass...

 

[gooberliberation]

What the heck is that propellor doohickey on the Me 163's nose? I'm thinking its a RAT of some sort but I havent found any sources saying so.

[Brian da Basher]

That's an excellent question Mr Howling Mouse. I suspect all spent brass was ejected. Unless the typical ammo load was only a few rounds, there wouldn't be room to keep all those empty casings.

Brian da Basher

[GTX]

Gooberliberation,

What the heck is that propellor doohickey on the Me 163's nose? I'm thinking its a RAT of some sort

Close enough - it is a propellor driven electrical generator.

Regards,

Greg

[noxioux]

A more important question:  Where did the relief tube exit?

[Radish]

On the '163, the pilot wouldn't need a relief tube 'cause:

a. the aircraft only flew for a short period
b. the damn thing probably blew up anyway
c. or there was a fuel leak which'd melt the pilot before the explosion
d. the pilot was so scared he'd sweat any liquid from his body within seconds anyway

Otherwise, like on the Mustang, it exited down below somewhere.
But a pilot trying to pee, while looking out for the enemy, keeping formation, at 25,000 feet and wearing full flight gear was an extremely manoeverable guy!
I remember reading about a PR Spit pilot who was taken short during a flight. At high altitude, the other problem was a frozen "pee" tube. This happened, pee sprayed everywhere in his cockpit, lining his canopy and freezing. He had to chip frozen urine off the inside of his canopy to see out, wandering all over the place, anxious that a Luftwaffe fighter might spot him. When eventually he regained safer skies and dropped his altitude, his urine-lined cockpit melted of course....he never did explain it to his ground crew!

[Hobbes]

Unless the typical ammo load was only a few rounds, there wouldn't be room to keep all those empty casings.

The casings wouldn't take up more room than the unused ammo. IIRC on the A-10, the casings are fed back into the drum.  

[Spellbinder99]

Interestingly, on the Jaguar, the shells from the Aden cannon are ejected but the links between the rounds are retained in two compartments between the cannon.

Cheers

Tony

[Radish]

And did you know that when replacing certain panels on a RAF Phantom...well, all Phantoms really, the panel came from the manufacturer, then had to be cut to fit, and the necessary holes drilled to match the particular aircraft as they were all different....that's 5000+ all different.  

[RP1]

I've been told that the limiting factor for the gun magazine capacity on EE Lightnings was actually the size of the bag used to collect the spent cases!

RP1

[Brian da Basher]

Wow spent casings fed BACK into the ammo drum?! Incredible! I learn something with every visit here. Thanks for setting me straight, gents.

Of course, the info on the relief tube was probably more than I needed to know...

Brian da Basher

[proditor]

On the JSF, can you do a rolling short take-off by using the lift jets and kicking the tail nozzle at an angle?  Or does JSF just not "do" rolling take-offs?

[jcf]

The casings wouldn't take up more room than the unused ammo. IIRC on the A-10, the casings are fed back into the drum.

Not just the A-10, its common to US aircraft gatlings.

The book "Rapid Fire" is an excellent treatise on the subject of heavy automatic weapons.

As to the JSF and rolling takeoffs, we'll have to wait and see if they develop such a protocol once they have some of the STOVL variant built...most likely its their intent.

Cheers, Jon

[waynos]

The F-35 JSF cannot do this type of take off, nor does it have any form of TVC like the F-22, It can only point its nozzle straight down for vertical landings, thats it. Of course the F-35 A and C cannot even do this, the jet nozzle on those is firmly fixed. Regarding vertical take offs, this is only possible at minimal fuel loads and with no weapons carried, so basically never then.

The X-35B has demonstrated VTO but of course this is much lighter than the F-35 and carried no weapons either.

It could perform STO by utilising the lift fan but the main nozzle would not move.