Dassault Super Mirage G8A

[pometablava]

More info about Aviation Magazine International.

First of all, there was a mistake. Number 510 is for the Nord advanced projects. I'm sorry




The Mirage Mach 3 is on Number 516. 15 Juin 1969. pg 76. Nouveautés Le Bourget 1969

The original text is:

"Dans le cadre des recherches sur un avion "Mach 3" français, la firme Avions Marcel Dassault a établi, parmi d'autres projets, ce dessin d'un appareil biréacteur M-53, delta à geometrie fixe. Sera-t-il construit?..."

The answer is "no"

As you can see there is no references at all. No Mega-Mirage, no Mirage 6000. I knew about this references at this forum, for the first time. I remember Evan talking about it.
The AMD Mach 3 fighter drawing was posted by Tony Buttler at Air Enthusiast some years ago.

According to the text I also understand that this was not the only Mach 3 fighter study. It would be phantastic to learn more...somebody has to know about it. In June 1969 I was 6 months old, so engineers involved in that projects are in the same age range of my daddy and my daddy is alive. Why is so difficult to get info about unbuilt aerospace projects?


Tophe, if you want scan from Aviation Magazine just send me an email

Regards,

Antonio

[Archibald]

Hello!! Well I'm not Tophe as you can see, but I'm interested in the N°516 you mentionned... If you can send me the scan ...

[elmayerle]

Come to think of it, if you could scan and email both the Nord Advanced Projects and the Mirage Mach 3 articles, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,
Evan

[Tophe]

Question to the Mirage experts and our favourite engineer: why haven't there been a double-delta wing on the last Mirages? The Mirage 2000 was mainly using the Mirage III delta recipe (much improved with fly-by-wire) but the General Dynamics team considered such a simple delta was not as good as the Draken's double delta for a modern fighter, so there must be reasons... Why Dassault team did not reach the same conclusion (before 1997? see above)? Who was right? (if the requirements were the same – I understand a maximum range could lead to a bigger wing, thus delta+ into double delta)...
( See my Mirage 2000XL & XL² at http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...40&#entry146072 )

[Archibald]

Apparently the three "eurocanards" (just love this word! Much shorter to say than Rafale-typhoon-grippen) started with a cranked delta (first studies of the Typhoon between 1978 and 1987 had double delta if I remember well). Why they dropped it later is amystery for me, too...  

[elmayerle]

*shrug* I've no idea why Dassault hasn't used a double-delta wing on any flying aircraft.  There may be a good technical reason or it could be any number of more emotional ones ("That's identified with one of our competitors" or the simple NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome for two examples).

[Archibald]

MArcel Dassault was saying that "si un avion est beau, il volera bien " (= If aplane look fine, it would fly well). this was not pure rethoric... The fin of the first Mirage IV and Mirage 2000 looked bad. Dassault forced its design bureau to change its shape, just because he had decided that the fin was ugly!!!
Thats why I agree with you when you say

of more emotional ones

Maybe it was because of the Draken, harsh competitor to the Mirage III at the beginning of the 60's
In brief : cranked was ugly, and use by a competitor. that's probably why Dassault never used it    

[GTX]

Yes,

I've heard that saying too - I wonder how he would explain this creation then from the early '30s (when is name was still Marcel Bloch)?



Regards,

Greg

[elmayerle]

Going by its competition in France, I'm almost tempted to suggest that it was to a requirement set down by the government.    Besides, it has that "government-designed" look to it.

[Archibald]

Yes,

I've heard that saying too - I wonder how he would explain this creation then from the early '30s (when is name was still Marcel Bloch)?



Regards,

Greg

^_^  That's a good argument.
Many french planes of the 30's have turrets everywhere.
If you like ultra-ugly french planes of the 30's (well, at the time, they were ALL ugly ) just look at the thread "cold war in the 30's" in alternative history. I'm digging a website named "Aviafrance". At the beginning, it was just for the fun (and because i know that Radish love the old planes fulls of turrets and spats). But now, I'm really searching the ugliest plane in the database
sometimes you just ask "how the hell could fly these things??!!!!  

[NARSES2]

Yes,



sometimes you just ask "how the hell could fly these things??!!!!

Brave men - same as those who expected to fly Heyford's to Berlin in 1938

[Archibald]

Or the poor men who bomb panzer divisions at 180km/h with Amiot 143 in may 1940...    

[GTX]

What if the RAAF decided to pass on the F-111 and went with the Mirage G instead and then also went with Mirage F.1s as a Mirage III replacement?



regards,

Greg

[rickshaw]

What if the RAAF decided to pass on the F-111 and went with the Mirage G instead and then also went with Mirage F.1s as a Mirage III replacement?

Timeline would be wrong.   Decision on the F-111 had been taken before the Mirage G had its first flight IIRC.

[Mossie]

The F-111 didn't enter Australian service until ten years after it was ordered.  If the Mirage G development had been ordered by the French government, it would probably have been available in a similar time frame.  It wouldn't be too unusual for a customer to pull out & wait longer for an aircraft that it felt better suited it's needs, the UK did exactly that when they cancelled orders for F-111 to develop the MRCA/Tornado.