A-5 (A3J) Vigilante

[Daryl J.]

There is this rumor running around that there was an A-5A that had an additional 6 feet behind the cockpit.

[The Wooksta!]

I'm suprised we've never seen an USAF A-5 in SEA camo.  Apart from Air Force - Navy rivalry, the A-5 seems a natrual choice to fill the gap had the TFX program failed & the F-111 not gone into production.

Must have read my mind....

I have two scenarios with this in mind.


Scenario A:
The F-111A gets canned when the F-111B is dropped, the USAF wants an all new design replacement. However the descision makers ixnay that as there is already the FX on the horizon, the AX and AMSA. The view is that another big program alongside these is financially to big an ask, if the USAF wants a TFX-Take 2 then one of the three existing big programs will have to go.

As far as the top brass is concerned, AMSA is untouchable, whilst the Fighter Mafia are kicking up a storm to protect the FX. Initially the USAf tries to can the AX, but the Army makes a huge fuss and through skillful politicking/lobbying convince enough policymakers in the DoD and the Senate to support keeping the AX.

Thus the need arises for an interim strike aircraft (the USAF's long term goal is still to get an all new plane), an RFP is sent out for off the shelf solutions....que a revised A-5 which wins a hotly contested competition against a beefed up strike optimised F-4....

Scenario 2:
There is no TFX, McNamara persues an even more aggresive policy of "Commonality" than in OTL and insists the services standardise as far as possible. Having already shoehorned the F-4 into the USAF, he rejects the need for a new strike aircraft and insists they take a revised A-5 (with the revisions to be as minimal as possible). In this scenario we end up with the USN and USAF operating a common fleet of aircraft, F-4, A-5, A-7.



Duncan

Scenario 3
Lockheed offer a third proposal - licence building the Mach 2+ strike aircraft the British have been developing.  All of the development work has been done, it just needs some final tweaks to the u/c and the engines. 

[rickshaw]

There is this rumor running around that there was an A-5A that had an additional 6 feet behind the cockpit.

Really?  And why would they need to add an extra 5 feet behind the cockpit?

[tigercat2]

I'm suprised we've never seen an USAF A-5 in SEA camo.  Apart from Air Force - Navy rivalry, the A-5 seems a natrual choice to fill the gap had the TFX program failed & the F-111 not gone into production.

Here is one, a USAF Vigi in SEA cammo, and a few other Vigis.


Wes W.

[Mossie]

All very nice, the SEA Vigi looks fantastic (& slight hi-jack, I'm very partial to that SEA A-6).  The NA-349 we've mentioned earlier has been very much in my thoughts recentley, maybe I need to get the Trumpeter kit....

[tigercat2]

Thanks for the comments; from what I have read, the USAF gave serious consideration to purchasing A-6s in the mid-60s, as they had no true night/all weather attack capability until the F-111 (and it had a very bad start in 1967 with the Combat Lancer deployment).  A few F-105Fs were modified into "Ryan's Raiders" aircraft, but that was not a sustained effort, from what I understand. 

Also, from what I understand, the RA-5C was a fantastic recon bird, more capable than the RF-4, faster and with much longer range.  An Air Force version operating from land bases would not have had the problems the Navy did due to the size of the aircraft (space aboard aircraft carriers), and purchasing several hundred for the USAF would have brought the unit cost down quite a bit.

Wes W.

[MAD]

Would an ECM version of a Viggie be feasible?  Just some things I've been wondering about.  Might get a Viggie kit soon and wanted to make a plausible whiff.  Any ideas gents?

Cliffy B (& GTX profile!) I like it!!
An EA-5B/C would be a EF-111A Raven type before its day!
It would have the benefits of supporting the A-5A/B`s in their strikes against heavily defended targets at the Vigilante`s optimum supersonic speed over target - unlike that of the EA-3 & EA-6A/B!
I dare say if it was developed, the USAF would be interested - especially over the skies of North Vietnam.


M.A.D

[GTX]

Anyone know the dimensions and exact positioning of the A-5's weapons bay?  I am looking to options for modifying.

Regards,

Greg

[GTX]

What about a stretched/enlarged Vigilante in the same mould as the FB-111H?

Regards,

Greg

[Chris707]

I tried to sketch that up, Greg, but don't know if I managed the essence of that concept....great idea, that!



Chris

[GTX]

Folks,

The other day a colleague mentioned that he had heard of an incident where a North American A-5 Vigilante had performed a "dump&Burn" (ala the F-111's famous trick).   He wasn't sure if this was intentional or accidental.  I have not heard of this, but upon re-examining the Vigilante's fuel dump pipe location (see attached photo), I see that it could have been possible.  Has anyone got any information they could add to this?



Regards,

Greg

[PR19_Kit]

So glad this post got bumped again 

It enables me to ask, did anyone ever do a conversion for the original 'low back' A5-A from the Hase or Airfix RA5-C? It looks a real pig to do from scratch. 

[PR19_Kit]

Duncan,

.....milliput and liberal applications of elbow grease for the resuling PSR....

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of........   

[NARSES2]

Duncan,

.....milliput and liberal applications of elbow grease for the resuling PSR....

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of........  

....nothing of any true value is ever achieved easily...

Philosophy indeed  

[Gary F]

For GTX,

  I've seen the Vigi (RA-5C) do the fuel burn.  Saw it when I was on the E back in '73.  It was the end of the cruise and instead of off loading ordnance in port (before heading back to the States) the air wing put on an 'ordnance show' ... ie a sort of air show with everyone dropping full loads ... our A-6's were dropping 28 Rockeye or mk 82's each ... all off the port side of the ship.  The funny part was the H-3's doing high speed passes looking like they were going to shake apart.  Another high speed pass at deck level by an E-2 and finally a silent pass by the Vigi starting below deck level, pulling up sharply dumping fuel and lighting it off and looking like it was near vertical. Having built a few Vigi's as a kid, seeing the Vigi go super sonic at carrier deck level still stands out as one of more impressive airplane related sights I've seen.