Uber Ram-jaeger!??

tahsin · November 22, 2011, 11:59:44 PM

Regarding desperation , I hear one should have lived back then to fully understand the trends . A rocket fighter to ram is not farfetching , if just if , you sit on the tarmac of an airport just outside New York , waiting for that Me264 to come into range just two hours after the news that London was nuked . If you don't feel like it , there will be even cooks to volunteer .

P-79 had no place in the brave new world where America ruled . This from the kind of the reference you won't see survive long online .

PR19_Kit · November 23, 2011, 03:04:25 AM

Quote from: tahsin on November 22, 2011, 11:59:44 PM
Regarding desperation , I hear one should have lived back then to fully understand the trends .

I did, but I was only three at the time..........

NARSES2 · November 23, 2011, 03:17:50 AM

There are some recollections of the air war on the Eastern Front coming out of Russia now. Got one book by a P-39 pilot and it's fascinating. Quite difficult to fathom as the mind set is so different

You've also got the "Black Cross : Red Star" volumes which whilst being mainly from the German viewpoint can be quite enlightening.

Mossie · November 23, 2011, 07:50:02 AM

This is what you need, the Avro Silverbug:

Real Avro Canada project based around the Project Y & Avrocar studies. Forget the wingtips or tail, just chop the bugger in two!

sequoiaranger · November 23, 2011, 08:10:06 AM

re: the Avro Silverbug--reminds me of "Goldfinger"s bodyguard Oddjob!

Rheged · November 23, 2011, 08:36:39 AM

Quote from: sequoiaranger on November 23, 2011, 08:10:06 AM
re: the Avro Silverbug--reminds me of "Goldfinger"s bodyguard Oddjob!

Typical Canadians.......no messing about.......just get on with the job in the simplest way possible.....

KJ_Lesnick · November 23, 2011, 04:01:05 PM

The question is would the design actually work, and would the decelerative forces injure the pilot? I've been involved in a car-crash and I can tell you, you get jarred around pretty good!

RussC · November 23, 2011, 06:06:28 PM

Quote from: KJ_Lesnick on November 23, 2011, 04:01:05 PM
The question is would the design actually work, and would the decelerative forces injure the pilot? I've been involved in a car-crash and I can tell you, you get jarred around pretty good!

And the XP-79 had a prone pilot, could take more G's in either maneuver or collision. A seated pilot would take more impact like in a car wreck. Good Harnesses and a hopefully heavy windscreen would be in order. Just imagine though in a prone seat at the nose of the 79' and leading into the crash with your chin!

Doc Yo · November 23, 2011, 06:21:53 PM

Thats a great image of the Silverbug, and it does look like the best possible configuration for a very bad idea

Thanks to all for the info on the 'Taran' attacks.

PR19_Kit · November 24, 2011, 02:50:16 AM

Somewhere I have a couple of pages of an article talking about a 'Spitfire Rammer' that had strengthened leading edges, hooked-forward wing tips and the cockpit moved back to just forward of the fin. Someone in the UK-SIG gave it to me at a show last. year but I can't remember who and can't find the print-out either.

tahsin · November 24, 2011, 03:55:09 AM

From a Turkish forum where exactly nobody has good Deutsch , I understand a Major Ehrler who failed to protect the Tirpitz was ordered to ram Amerikan planes in combat and he did it in April 1945 in a Me 262 . Schallmoser , Adolf Galland's wingman has the sobriquet Turbo-Rammer , probably after getting a B-26 .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/70477163@N05/6394096773/

Pictures are obviously from some book , freely removeable in case of copyright issues , originally posted 2009 . One day I will also learn how to show them ... I understand the B-17 picture dates back from Sicily 1943 and there was only one casualty . Though the writing surely says no one was injured and the plane landed safely . The killed then is probably the German pilot himself . In light of the first , the second is obviously optimistic yet it shows the destruction of Lt Richardson's plane on "the April 7th , 1945 operation against American bombers" . The thread mentions it as "when hundreds of '190s took off with the intention of ramming , steel tipped wings and all" when translated though how accurate , I have no idea . Apparently only 8 planes managed to collide . Heinz Nowarra , in a book on the FW-190 , says there were 183 of them in addition to other planes and they got 23 B-17s while the escorting Me-262s had 28 kills . For this 133 '190s and 77 of their pilots were lost .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/70477163@N05/6394096903/in/photostream/

Regarding projects the Blohm Voss BV40 was at first meant to tow an explosive attached to a string trailing behind , following British projects early in the war . Of those projects I know only that they existed . Trailing a grapnel was an old idea yet unpractical . I am confused on this but the first ever Russian kill might have involved such an attempt , when it failed the Russian pilot rammed the German two seater for mutual destruction .Wiki says otherwise.//

sequoiaranger · November 24, 2011, 07:29:38 AM

>And the XP-79 had a prone pilot, could take more G's in either maneuver or collision. Just imagine though in a prone seat at the nose of the 79' and leading into the crash with your chin!<

I would think that for prone pilots, an ankle harness attached to a strong point would be in order, so the pilot doesn't suddenly lurch forward upon impact.

re: seated pilots--maybe the pilot should be turned around (with full neck/head bracing) and attack by mirror so that the impact's impact on the body is minimized.

These days, one could employ an automobile-type "air bag" to minimize crash effects for the pilot!

Now were REALLY getting "out there"!

tahsin · November 28, 2011, 12:20:23 AM

Asked on the Turkish forum if there was anything new and it turns out somebody has a book on German jet aces and Schallmoser seems to have collided with a stricken plane , jumping out he landed in the garden of his house . That speed advantage of the Me-262 was a double edged sword , one of the first victories of the plane was when a German was sneaking on Recce P-38 . Trying to get close for a shot he simply crashed into it .

RussC · November 28, 2011, 02:54:57 AM

Quote from: tahsin on November 28, 2011, 12:20:23 AM
Asked on the Turkish forum if there was anything new and it turns out somebody has a book on German jet aces and Schallmoser seems to have collided with a stricken plane , jumping out he landed in the garden of his house . That speed advantage of the Me-262 was a double edged sword , one of the first victories of the plane was when a German was sneaking on Recce P-38 . Trying to get close for a shot he simply crashed into it .

Plus the fact that every hot-shot on the opponent side wanted a jet kill to impress his friends, commanders and sweetheart, and would simply wait until your schwalbe was low on J2 and in the landing pattern. Turns out that in order to get a squadron of 262's into battle, several more of FW190's had to clear their path from airport to battle area and back again.

Landed in the garden of his own house? That's pretty wild!

tahsin · December 02, 2011, 02:17:42 AM

Well , at this point it is hardly on topic , but somebody else has a different book , an Osprey title to boot , and it seems the B-26 lost only the tips of one of its propellers , while the Me was a total write off . The house belonged to his father and Schallmoser's mother gave him some pancakes now that he had dropped by . Yet the P-38 I had talked of , apparently it was the reason why he got to be the Turbo-rammer.